Must Watch: Bill Maher's Religulous Trailer!
Ever since I first heard about Religulous last year, I have been looking forward to seeing it, which is very rare for documentaries. Religion is a sensitive subject for a lot of people, so let's be careful with this movie, but let me be the first to say that this documentary looks phenomenal. Religulous is a documentary simply looking at Bill Maher's take on the current state of world religion. It's a very interesting subject to focus on, especially at this rather important time in America's history. And I'll be damned if this trailer isn't amazingly well put together! It's the perfect tease to get you completely interested in what Bill Maher has in store for us with Religulous. You don't want to miss this trailer!
Watch the trailer for Bill Maher's Religulous:
You can also watch the Religulous trailer in High Definition on Apple
Religulous is directed by Larry Charles, of both Masked and Anonymous and Borat previously. The film is being distributed domestically by Lionsgate, the studio that also brought Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 to the big screen. Religulous arrives in theaters everywhere starting on October 3rd this fall. Don't miss it!
Reader Feedback - 154 Comments
OCP on Jun 7, 2008
the dumbest shit iv ever seen.
Zack Borleas on Jun 7, 2008
Hey Zack, ur a dumbass
sott on Jun 7, 2008
While this doesn't look at, say, intellectual as Dawkins' "Religion: The Root of All Evil?", it does look like a fun movie that may attract a bit more of a mainstream audience. And if it gets just a few more people to take religious beliefs a little less seriously (while still recognizing how serious their impact is in the world around us), then Maher ought to be applauded.
Aaron Powell on Jun 7, 2008
I just hate how every time someone criticizes Christianity, it is because of freaking idiots in the faith. They showed Robert Tilton (an idiot televangelist), who, in no wise, is even close to being what the Christian faith prescribes. That said, I will see this because it would be good to se the criticisms of the faults in the people of the Christian faith.
Josh on Jun 7, 2008
Josh, this isn't the place for the debate, but I'd just remind you that people have been arguing about "what the Christian faith prescribes" for as long as there's been such a thing. You'd have an awfully difficult time making the argument with any degree of objectivity that Tilton's faith is incorrect, while yours is closer to true Christianity.
Aaron Powell on Jun 7, 2008
This is going to piss off so many people. I can't wait.
Collin on Jun 7, 2008
Ya I know Aaron. I wasn't starting a debate, just stating my thoughts on the film. I will see it, but it won't make me mad. I can understand the criticisms of religion. Religion is destructive. And I know this isn't just about Christianity but religions of all types. It will be an interesting documentary.
Josh on Jun 7, 2008
i love bill maher, love the show too. can't wait.
Darrin on Jun 7, 2008
i really can't wait to see this! i've never been a huge fan of bill but this does look good. even though i'm christian i love seeing what other people's views on God are and i hope it doesn't end up with a limited release
funnytunney on Jun 7, 2008
This looks fun. Being that LionsGate also distributes the DVD "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, I wonder where this film is going to go. Looks like it will be a very interesting exploration. Meanwhile watch "Gary Zamora - The Devil Gave Me a Flat Tire" on YouTube here http://youtube.com/watch?v=C8LV0kOatvg Peace, ya'll.
R.S. on Jun 7, 2008
the theaters showing this will be troll heaven
Bob Dole on Jun 7, 2008
finally giving religion the laugh it deserves
Daniel on Jun 7, 2008
Hey look...it's Bill Maher looking smug with some editing that brings out the "ironic" in all his questions. How original! Guess there are no normal religious people in this world who aren't crazy or who don't want to kill everyone.
Unlived on Jun 7, 2008
I'm buying a ticket!
Brian on Jun 7, 2008
OH YEAH!!!! I would drive to another state to see this if I had to...this looks to be doing what desperately needs to be done...show religion for the opiate crutch that it is...if people didnt take themselves and religion so seriously the world would be a much safer and calmer place to live...
moldybread on Jun 7, 2008
Laser! on Jun 7, 2008
lol religion. It's funny in that incredibly scary kind of way.
Evan on Jun 7, 2008
" Hey look…it's Bill Maher looking smug with some editing that brings out the "ironic" in all his questions. How original! Guess there are no normal religious people in this world who aren't crazy or who don't want to kill everyone." Quoted for truth. " OH YEAH!!!! I would drive to another state to see this if I had to…this looks to be doing what desperately needs to be done…show religion for the opiate crutch that it is…if people didnt take themselves and religion so seriously the world would be a much safer and calmer place to live…" Where have I heard that before....Trying to remember who embraced such a ideology...hmm, oh wait yes Communism. Yeah that worked out real well. Because people beliving in a set of moral values is terribly wrong, or people wanting to believe they are part of something bigger then themselves. But its much more fun to stereotype people based on the wacko's that are probably mentally handicap to begin with.
Billy on Jun 7, 2008
I have to admit judging from the website and the concept alone, I thought going into the trailer, this was just going to be another pretentious anti-religious diatribe, but judging from the trailer this actually looks funny, and I like the fact that Maher can use comedy to put his points across, and not just some sophist garbage.
jman571 on Jun 7, 2008
Not really interested in hearing Bill Maher's take on anything.
Zach D. on Jun 7, 2008
Anyone with 1/2 a brain has already mulled over the same concept except most people are descent enough to leave people to their own beliefs. When people make movies like this I wonder if they've ever contemplated what a world would be like where no one believed in a God.
Richard on Jun 8, 2008
"When people make movies like this I wonder if they've ever contemplated what a world would be like where no one believed in a God." Richard, quite a lot of people have and many of them conclude that a world without belief in god(s) would be a significantly better place. I've written quite a few articles on just that subject in a series I've called "A Better Life Without God: What Atheism Offers," which are on my site. But the short answer is, there's a strong argument to be made that a world without faith would be kinder, more compassionate, and considerably less violent.
Aaron Powell on Jun 8, 2008
#23 nice post. I myself was raised a christian but currently dont practice anymore. Lets think about what religion has brought the world. The Crusades. Death. The middle east. Death. The spanish inquisition. Death. Colonizing of America by the english. Death. 9/11. Death. I do realize it probably has done good as well but looking at this list makes you wonder if there was no religion what would the world be like. Perhaps i could afford gas in my car.
Heckle on Jun 8, 2008
Or..... we can think about what Human Nature has brought to the world. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. and more Death. People blame everything else except themselves for everything else. Thats also human nature. I think we just need to get over it. Humans just aren't capable of solving all the world's problems. Everyone getting along is a pointless endeavor, especially if you are using films to blame the rest of the world for your problems with them. Common Sense is not a term that can be used anymore. Neither is right or wrong. I believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Trinity. But I WILL NOT use that as a crutch to try and take an advantage in life, nor to blame the problems which i have created in my own life or someone elses.
Jordan on Jun 9, 2008
I don't really care to get into religious or political debates, on the Internets or otherwise. But I do have something to add. I swear to Bill Maher's god that I thought the title to this was just "Religious". All those posts about it, and I never noticed the title. heh
kevjohn on Jun 9, 2008
I can't wait to see this. I just finished reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Fantastic piece of literature. Since I am a recovering Catholic, it's taken me a long time to get religion out of my head and I am now a better person. I say question everything.
ObiWop on Jun 9, 2008
"Because people beliving in a set of moral values is terribly wrong, or people wanting to believe they are part of something bigger then themselves. But its much more fun to stereotype people based on the wacko's that are probably mentally handicap to begin with." "Billy on Jun 7, 2008" That quote sums it up. First off morality and religion do not go hand in hand. Most of the atrocities throughout history were done in the name of religion. Do you think that's moral? I suggest you read more.......suggestion..."The God Delusion" I give to charities, lead a very moral life, am kind to others, and take care of my family, and I'm an Atheist. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be. There are many of us and we are very moral. have a great day.
ObiWop on Jun 9, 2008
Number 4 said it all. I have got 2 see this.
Cyfer1 on Jun 18, 2008
#24 you mentioned Religion and Death. You forgot a few more: Rwanda - (Catholics killing Protestants vice-versa) Ireland vs. Northern Ireland - (Catholics killing Protestants vice-versa) Pakistan vs. India - (Muslims killing-Hindu vice-versa) Serbia vs. Kosovo - (Orthodox killing Catholics vice-versa) Bosnia-Herzegovina - (Orthodox killing Muslim vice-versa) Sudan - (Christians killing Muslims vice versa) Get rid of religion - we'll see much less wars, hatred, and prejudice. Religion is the opium of the people, is not just a slogan, it is a real statement. It doesn't take an Atheist to see that reality.
THE DEMISE on Jun 19, 2008
In the trailer, Bill Maher is talking to Andrew Newberg in Grand Central Station. The trailer says Newberg is the authoer of the book WHY WE BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE, but he's a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania--the guy who does brain scans of nuns, buddhists, atheists, and pentecostals as they speak in tongues. I'm dying to know what his take is on all this religulous-ness. Anyone know?
Mark on Jul 8, 2008
#31 MARK SAID: "Andrew Newberg...[is] a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania-the guy who does brain scans of nuns, buddhists, atheists, and pentecostals as they speak in tongues." I'm a Sci-fi geek and I believe Jesus of Nazareth when he says he's the Messiah. So mention science and spirituality with a human interest story -- you've got me hooked. And I DO think religion (man's attempt at getting to God) is quite ridiculous... I think I'm gonna have fun watching this doc.
R on Jul 8, 2008
hah hah, the true meaning of christianity???? thats not around anymore lol, its dead, everyone else is just doing what some old man at the front of a sanctuary is telling them to, no one is making their own opinions and actually realizing that science has been proven, not a single thing in the bible is possible or has any proof of being possible other than the fact that the bible says it does, its just a worn out fiction book thats been on a endless best sellers list, i think its time that people actually see this and see the true light, dont get me wrong, im all for what religion stands for, but humanity has gradually lost it
Epic on Aug 17, 2008
Epic, If that's the kind of world you want to live in, where miracles are impossible because, "In the beginning there was no God who created the heavens and the earth," so be it. As for me, I have much reason to believe that there is a God who created it all and that He does care about us, because He made us so that He can be in intimate relationship with each of us - if only we would be willing. http://www.LeeStrobel.com
R on Aug 17, 2008
lol really, an intimate relationship, i told you im all for what religion means and what its supposed to be, but people have lost that, many only believe because of a fear of going to hell, and honestly think, god has no influence in our lives, we do, we control our lives by the choices we make and how we cary ourselves by our beliefs of right and wrong, there is no divine intervention
Epic on Aug 18, 2008
If Andrew Newberg is in Bill Maher's movie, he's really going to give Richard Dawkins a headache. Newberg's research (see #31 comment) really shows that all forms of spiritual practice (prayer, meditation, even speaking in tongues) is good for your brain, and that even going to church regularly will add years onto your life (great research in his book). Dawkins says religion is bad for society, but the evidence isn't there. I know, because I'm an atheist, and a researcher, and can't find a single study that shows that religion is any worse, or better, than, say, politics. Only angry religious rhetoric will damage the brain (this piece of info comes from Newberg's new book (How God Changes Your Brain) which I got a chance to see part of.
Research Fellow on Aug 19, 2008
I have seen the entire movie a few times and it is amazing how people who do documentaries on Christianity never interview capable people who can more than adequately respond to the questions that are being asked. Bill puts down religion but his arguments are self refuting because in reality his world view on religion can be classified as a belief or religion in and of itself. It's like a person who says they don't have an opinion... well not having an opinion is in fact an opinion in and of itself. Bill not believing in religion is in fact his belief, his world view or his religion. I would also ad that whoever did the research for this documentary really did not do a very good job at all. Some of the information that is given is not accurate or complete. A lot of his arguments are weak or what we call in logic "straw man arguments." As far as Christianity is concerned, if Bill was really serious about searching for the truth or if he really wanted to find answers, he would of interviewed people that were more than capable of doing so.
BJ on Aug 19, 2008
Zach (from #2) definitley wears a wife-beater shirt. I say this because he most likely is the kind of person who reads the bible and takes it literally. Read Leviticus...no wait...read the ENTIRE Old Testament to be reminded that if you buy into that crap, you have to stone children to death who disrespect their parents, stone gay people to death, stone adulterers to death, and stone people to death who work on the Sabbath (fast food workers, Target and Walmart employees, pilots, plumbers, people who care for the elderly, hospital workers, etc.) It's time people stopped taking the bible literally, and as a matter of fact (as Dawkin's writes so intelligently) stop regarding the bible as a sacred book. It's a piece of literature that inspires anger, intolerence, racism, sexism, and bigotry. So does the Koran. Anyone who gets upset with Bill's movie is uneducated and bigoted. They are also dicknoses. Gleep, flup, bree bree...(that's me talking in tongues).
Maggy on Aug 27, 2008
Maggy is a genious lol, i completely agree
Epic on Sep 1, 2008
I can NOT wait to see this! It is amazing how many crazy beliefs are still looked at as sane in 2008!
Greg on Sep 1, 2008
"Bill not believing in religion is in fact his belief" NO! Disbelief is the opposite of Believing, and this is why you still believe in a god. you can not think logically.
Greg on Sep 1, 2008
Greg, BJ has not idea what he's talking about. Its always the same with these people, "not believing is a religion"-types. Usually they also say atheists consider themselves their own gods.
Jef on Sep 8, 2008
lol, we think of ourselves as our own gods, thats because this is our life, we have to rise up and live it, we cant fallback on some god, because they wont do anything for us , the way you live your life is by your decisions, god is the oldest urban legend. soon like all other religions that died out, people will realize that its all illogical, most everything said in the bible is either untrue or irrevelant, and there is no proof for anything it says, people need to move on
Epic on Sep 15, 2008
Bible thumpers need not respond. We all know more than enough about your opinions. Trust us on this! "Jesus died for your sins.... no religion, no morality... there is everlasting life in Christ... Christians good, everyone else bad...." GOT IT. So yes, God delusion is right! I have been ready for a film like this for years! What a happy day for thinking people! It's about damn time. Long live Bill Mahr!
Gillie on Sep 17, 2008
I've always been of the opinion that insanity runs rampant with religiousness. In my family alone there are Mormons, Jahova's, Catholics, Jews, Seventh Day's, New Agers and Born Again's. They are all nuts. The only Atheist in my family gave me some perspective. So does Bill.
Sally on Sep 20, 2008
As mankind continues to evolve, atheism and agnosticism will grow. We think racism is a problem, which it is but religion is seeded deeper. For the most part, people are of the religion their folks were and don't question it. I hope this movie is a huge hit. It should be required viewing for every child in school but it won't because the blind prefer their children follow the blind. Gotta go, there is bidding on Ebay for a piece of toast that looks like Pope Perverticus the III.
Big Bang on Sep 20, 2008
I love the fact that almost every argument made here against Bill Maher comes specifically from Christians. This movie covers all of the religions you delusional zealots. He isn't attacking any faith, he simply is stating his opinions. Obviously those opinions are that these followers are not the most intelligent people around, and every person who has tried to argue against him on this page only adds fuel to the fire. As many people have already stated on this page, some of the most kind and giving people I know don't follow any faith. They are perfectly capable of being humane and having set morals without some preacher telling scaring them into having those morals. I have studied judaism, protestant and catholic Christianity but have found no reason to continue wasting my time with those beliefes because they cause people to be so close minded about life. When asked "What would this world be like without religion?" I respond with my honest belief. I believe that this world would be much more advanced than it is now. Hundreds of years ago our ancestors dreamt that we would have flying cars and be some eutopian society by now. But then religion comes and tells all of those incapable of thinking for themselves that science is a tool of the devil made to cause disbelief in "A" god.
AJ on Sep 22, 2008
"Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." I see people laughingly saying they will be in hell with their friends.....there will be no party in hell. The bible was written by over 40 authors, a 1500 year period, and the bible prophecy they spoke of has come to pass. Now unless it is inspired by God how could this be?? Look at the world today. Jesus is coming back some day (mayber sooner than later). Some things are whether we want to believe it or not. Try thinking you can jump off of a building and not go down.
Jesussaves on Sep 23, 2008
About time someone had the courage to expose all this this religious nonsense. What a joke that in the 21st century people still believe in all this hokus pokus.
Zipspec on Sep 25, 2008
Einstein Quoted... "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
kioptool on Sep 25, 2008
timo on Sep 25, 2008
Easy to take on the fringe elements... why doesn't this prodigious intellect talk to a serious apologist, like William Lane Craig?
Jeff on Sep 27, 2008
After all is said and done, Bill Maher (God bless him!) will not be remembered for very long in the scheme of things, and God and His Word will continue humming along. Faith is proverbial, and people have to begin to wonder why that is so. Is it simply our weakness, or are we, in fact, wired to believe. And if so, why? If an atheistic universe is so obvious and our "natural" evolution so devoid of God, then why does "God" keep coming into the human equation time after time after time? This is what people like Bill M. don't want to face: the distinct possibility that we humans may be born to believe. It's like a little bit of Read-Only Memory from the Creator of the Universe...
David on Sep 29, 2008
Once people outgrow the Easter bunny, Santa, and the tooth fairy, they still want to believe in magic. That's what this film is about. Magic. A hope and belief is something that will solve problems people are too lazy to study and work on.
Terri on Sep 29, 2008
I'm sure at some point, they said that about Zeus, Ra, and Baal too. Yahweh or Allah (from whichever lens we're viewing it), are always only 1 generation away from being placed on the bookshelves next to the iliad and odysey where the bible and the koran belong. Replace your word "atheistic" with "rationalistic", and ask the same question of any now-defunct religion. The reason my generation is waking up is because religion is dangerous, both in the short term and long term. Short term, people want to kill each other over this nonesense. The religous people that rammed those planes into those buildings were crazy. And it's because they believed in the words in their book. Long-term, issues like birth control and scientific research need addressing. The Catholics don't believe in birth control - great advice for a world that just mushroomed in population from 1 billion to 6.5 in the last 100 years - we will exhaust our resources on this spinning rock. In the end, it's not the war on terror that needs to be focused upon....it's the war against rationalism - religion needs to be exposed for the danger that it presents to our rational species. Bill Mahar is taking this attempt to expose the concept of religion for the nonesense that it is. He'll probably bring it to us with humor, which is how religion should be viewed. Even better, we get to watch it with a butter-popcorn in our hands!!! By the way - I say this as a person raised Christian - went to Christian school from age 5 through college. At age 26, I was the head of Adult-Education for an Episcopal Church. I know the books forward and backward. I am also well read in Harris, Dawkins, Hitchins, and am fully aware of what religion is and isn't.
William on Sep 29, 2008
Whoa. There is a God. And his name is Eric Clapton. Did Maher go onstage pre-show somewhere Eric was playing and debunk this myth? Why not? What could he possibly have to fear from the thinking enlightened doped out enlightened masses who adore Clapton? Dylan? Tupac? The Stones? Hanna Montana? Maher only requires one God and thats himself. Maher so caraves attention that he's organised a fllm to get it any which way he can. For the good of the people. And if the people disagree they are not enlightened. And deserve to be punished. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. This sounds vaguely familiar. Hyporcite thou name is Bill Maher.
less on Sep 30, 2008
Can someone tell me what religion we are talking about? All the religion (maybe buddism is the only exception) died and all we have left are political movements using god as cover trying to brainwash folks to follow "the faith" and kill X but save Y, donate money to Z - in other words try to spread their god laws to to other folks who want to have nothing to do with it... Power and money , that whats this is all about. If god exists and allows for torture and killing of little kids (see utube:kids as witches in Nigeria)..I do not want to be a christian. I rest my case....
Dude on Sep 30, 2008
Believe me....people can mock "religious" people all they want. Religious people are definitely missing it. And so are non-religious people. Only those with a true relationship with Jesus Christ can understand the value. I've seen people with nothing less than a love for music act more insane than some of the most fanatical religious people. We mock what we don't understand. But soon a day will come when all doubts will be laid to rest. And then the non-believers will see the Truth as He is. Some are so busy defaming the name and person of Christ that they've failed to acknowledge Him for who He is...someone who loves them and died trying to save them from themselves. One day you will need Someone...don't forget His name. And why does Bill Maher spend so much time trying to downgrade other's beliefs? I let him have his lack of beliefs. I grieve for his lost soul.
BCT on Oct 1, 2008
"In the end, it's not the war on terror that needs to be focused upon….it's the war against rationalism - religion needs to be exposed for the danger that it presents to our rational species." by William (#55) This is very true, but the fundamental problem, at least in America and I suspect a lot of other places around the world, is the lack of understanding of what being rational means and the lack of ability to fundamentally exercise concrete logic. There's a serious lack of education lack of desire to be educated. I find it terribly sad that in a world full of information and communication, that we find ourselves in a state of apathy and stupidity, and yet, the average American would classify himself or herself as "reasonably educated" about the world. Look at the number of people who classify themselves as "educated voters" who really just regurgitate what they saw or read somewhere with no real grasp of what exactly they are talking about. This goes for conservatives, liberals, socialists, libertarians, and pretty much every other possible classification. We, as adults, need to be taking action to raise our children to be rational, thinking, and honorable citizens of the world by leading by example. We need to be open enough to discuss things like religion, morality, and philosophy rationally, calmly, and honestly instead of just "leaving it up to everyone individually." If we keep doing that and expect to somehow miraculously have a world where problems actually get solved, then we are all idiots. Although Bill Maher's movie (looks like it) is funny, satirical, and sarcastic, he brings up a very good point. We shouldn't be afraid to question our beliefs. Questioning the universally accepted idea that the world was flat was once considered to be preposterous and even offensive. Imagine if we had never bothered to test that hypothesis!
Elizabeth on Oct 1, 2008
*correction: There's a serious lack of education lack of desire to be educated. This should read: There's a serious lack of desire to be educated. My apologies!
Elizabeth on Oct 1, 2008
sott at the top, God is a jealous God and He takes what we do seriously here on earth. Mock God, and I don't even have one bit of pity for you. You see, if I died today I know I would go to Heaven, What about you??? I would rather believe in Jesus, and find out later that it isn't true, than to disbelieve and find out someday I was wrong. Our nation is in dire need of help. We are what we are, and that is a nation of sinners. But you know we can all be Saints if we choose to be. Why are people so incredibly sarcastic when it comes to God. Just go to http://www.wayofthemaster.com and you will see and hear why those that don't believe Jesus saves, will burn eternally in a lake of fire. I do not want anyone who reads this message to end up there. Do you?? God Bless, Jim Cooke
jim c on Oct 2, 2008
I feel for all of you who have become bitter b/c of some thing or another. Life is tough and we have tough choices to make. I pray that each of you would consider the very fact that Christ died for all and to follow Him and do so wholeheartedly will in fact bless and enrich your life. My message is one of love not hate, not finger pointing, not bad mouthing, nor degrading, nor anything else that would not be something Jesus himself would do. People who have shared their thoughts and why Christianity isn't real or doesn't do for them what it once did or anything else that keeps you from totally pursuing Jesus with a zeal that would give you far more than anything else in this world offers. 2 commandments God gives us and if we did this we would be a nation free from oppression and other and all calamities: Love the Lord your God with all of your soul, with all of your mind, with all of your heart, and with all of your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. I know what is best for you, but do you? consider the consequences of your choices, just think outside of those 2 commandments about, what if we just all lived by the golden rule, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - again we would live in a more civilized country and world void of problems. In love, Jim C
jim c on Oct 2, 2008
What Jim C is trying to bring up is the old the Pascal Wager propagated by almost every religioso I've ever met, which reads as follows: it is better to believe in a deity and be wrong than the opposite. The only reason I am wasting time on this is because so many people actually believe that this argument really holds logical water. Jim C is not alone, unfortunately. Here's is just a few of the many flaws in that argument. Firstly, if there is a god who actually cares about what you believe, then how do you know you've picked the right belief system? There are over 4,000 religions in the world. Even amongst Christians, there are hundreds of denominations and sub-denominations many of which are mutually exclusive in their criterion for entrance into heaven. As a matter of probabilities, you've got about a 1/4000 chance of actually picking the right religion much less the right system of orthodoxy. Secondly, if god exists as an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being, then he/she/it would know if we were just "playing it safe" and condemn those of us who believe otherwise anyway. A person cannot simply choose to believe in something that they frankly don't believe just because it is prudent to do so. Thirdly, if the Christian god as proposed by Christians exists as a merciful and all forgiving god, then how come he/she/it has to resort to scare tactics to win believers? Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being be forced to reducing himself to such a low-ball technique? Some may respond to this by saying that god gave us free will and wants us to choose. See point #2. Fourthly, if there is no god and you've spent your whole time believing, sacrificing, and doing your supposed god's work, then you HAVE actually lost something. You've lost the time, experiences, and opportunities that you have denied yourself out of a false sense of belief. Here's an idea. Why not live your life honorably and compassionately and concentrate your efforts on making the world a more benevolent, honest, and a better place for the next generation. There's plenty of work to be done in that department on all possible levels. If there is no god or if god really doesn't care about your beliefs, then you will be remembered by those whose lives you have touched by your good deeds and serve as an example to the next generation. If there is a god, and he/she/it is benevolent, then he/she/it will reward you accordingly for improving the lives of your fellow man. If there is a god, and he/she/it is vindictive, then you're screwed anyway.
Elizabeth on Oct 2, 2008
*Here's is just a few of the many flaws in that argument. SHOULD READ: Here are just... Apologies... Again! 🙂
Elizabeth on Oct 2, 2008
Finally a movie I can relate to.
Samantha on Oct 2, 2008
Bravo, Elizabeth! You have shared the very points Dawkins argues. I agree with you 100%. In regards to organized religion being a waste of time on so many levels, I would like to add that when I was a stalwart Catholic, I gave A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY to our local church. I completely support the idea of putting the money into charities, but we all know where church donations end up: remodeling perfectly good churches, and paying off abuse victims, to name a few -- of course the latter is acceptable and expected. But the point is, we waste our energy praying and sitting in church when we could be using that time (and money) to help people and animals in need (and the environment). I went from Cradle Catholic, to devout Catholic, to Cafeteria Catholic, to Retired Catholic. It's true: the more highly educated a person becomes, the less likely that person will believe in the supernatural. It's also important to remember that the Ancient Greeks believed in Zeus, and the Ancient Egyptians believed in Amon-Re the same way contemporary Jews and Christians believe in "God". It's all the same idea and it's all the same wishful thinking.
Margaret O'Neill on Oct 2, 2008
LOL - I can't wait for this movie, most of all I hope it isn't done horribly, or it will just drag down the "beliefs" of the atheists out there. Religion makes no sense, you people HAVE to understand that~! Why cant' we believe that the universe is just.. here? why can't you accept that? (because thats crazy!) Well, the idea that god is just here... is JUST AS CRAZY. Pretty funny how a universe just being in existence without a creator is crazy... but having an all-knowing omniscient being who actually gives a rat's ass about humanity exists (oh btw he had no creator either... wow isn't that WEIRD!) We abuse this world, Humans are selfish, religion is SELFISH and we all deserve to die, perish and be completely erased from existence.
ThatAgnosticDood on Oct 2, 2008
Jim C on Oct 3, 2008
Comment 68 was just a test, sorry A good friend of mine suggested I not follow-up at all to comments made in regards to what I said in 61 and 62, followed up by by Elizabeth in 63, and I am not actually resisting his advice, I just wanted to close out what I started and do so in a kind and gentle way. First of all, Elizabeth is a beautiful name. My sister Jana's middle name is Elizabeth and even more importantly is the name Elizabeth in the Bible. You see, the verses in Luke 1, below, tell us a beautiful story of a couple who are to have a son, who would later baptize Jesus in the Jordan river. Whether you believe what I tell you to be true or not isn't the main thing of importance here, b/c no matter what I say to you now, many of those who have commented already are not receptive to God's word, and the only thing that will give you salvation, which in itself is hard to imagine b/c it is a free gift from God, is for the Holy Spirit to convict you of your sin and change your life. You see natural man cannot accept SPIRITUAL THINGS because he/she DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD. As of right now, I cannot help many of you b/c of this very thing. Answer the question if you comment to this, of What happened to Elizabeth when she heard Mary's greeting that is described in Luke 1:41 way below. After answering the above question, you can if you wish look at the descriptions of the Natural man, the Carnal man, and Spiritual man below, and YOU CAN COMMENT AWAY B/C I MAY READ WHAT YOU SAY, BUT MORE THAN LIKELY, I WILL NOT RESPOND AGAIN. It is only my prayer, heard by God, even if it is in thought only, that gives me hope you may come to understand the thing below. In the name of Christ, who is truly God's son, jim c WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US OF IS THE NATURAL, CARNAL AND SPIRITUAL MAN. 1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. . 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. . 1 Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. . 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 1 Cor 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 1 Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? . 1 Cor 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? In this sermon out line we see that man lives in a natural body but can live as a natural man or live as a carnal man or can be what God wants all of us to be in our Christian walk and that is a spiritual man. In this outline we look at what the Word says and how we can become a spiritual person walking in the Word and Will of God for our lives. It is only then we can be fulfilled in our lives and be truly happy. I. Let us look first at the NATURAL MAN Paul speaks of in 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. A. First most important HE DOES NOT RECEIVE SPIRITUAL THINGS. 1. Why? It is because he DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD. 2. The natural man tries to understand God with his five senses. 3. He looks for God with his five natural senses. 4. He considers the things of God as foolishness. 5. It was natural for man to adopt credit buying has had long experience paying now for past sins. II. Paul then tells of the CARNAL MAN WHO IS A BABE IN CHRIST, SAVED BUT NOT MATURE. -1 Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. . A. WORK OF FLESH IS MANIFEST IN THE CARNAL MAN. - 1 Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? - 1. Paul lists the works of the flesh in writing to the Galatians. - Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, - Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, - Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. . B. THE CANNAL MAN USUALLY HAD THE WORD ONLY IN THE HEAD NOT HEART. - Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. 1. I often say that we need the Word in our: a. Ears, to hear the Word of God. b. In our minds to understand the Word of God. c. In our hearts to believe the Word. d. In our mouths to speak the Word. B. We remain Babes in Christ if we do not grow in the Word. C. God may allow His servant to succeed when He has disciplined him to a point where he does not need to succeed to be happy. The man who is elated by success and is cast down by failure is still a carnal man. At best his fruit will have a worm in it. III. Then Paul tells us of the SPIRITUAL MAN. A. PAUL SAY TO BE SPIRITUAL WE NEED TO BE LED BY GOD'S SPIRIT. - Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. - Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. - Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. - Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. . B. THE SPIRITUAL MAN OR WOMAN WILL BRING FORTH FRUIT; - Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, - Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. . C. THE SPIRITUAL PERSON HELPS OTHERS AS CHRIST ALSO DID. - Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness;considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. . - Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 1. The spiritual person will try to bring backsliders back into fellowship with the Lord. 2. He will pray for others. 3. Spiritual people will attend church and be active in the work of God. 4. "A Pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself." J. Oswald Sanders writing in his book on spiritual leadership said - "If those who hold influence over others fail to lead toward the spiritual uplands, then surely the path to the lowlands will be well worn. People travel together; no one lives detached and alone." (Rom 8:6 KJV) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. For more help and info go to. http://www.tonyabram.com or to http://www.abundantlifecrusades.com. God bless you and yours. On behalf of this generation, Your friends in the service of Christ, Tony and Marge Abram Abundant Life Crusades http://www.tonyabram.com or go to: http://www.abundantlifecrusades.com Luke 1:5 [ The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold ] In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. Luke 1:7 But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years. Luke 1:13 But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. Luke 1:24 After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion. Luke 1:36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. Luke 1:39 [ Mary Visits Elizabeth ] At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, Luke 1:40 where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:56 Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home. Luke 1:57 [ The Birth of John the Baptist ] When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son.
jim c on Oct 3, 2008
#69 commentor has contributed a lengthy treatise worth considering. I will not be so kind, however. Romans 1:18-22 18 God's anger is shown from heaven against all the evil and wrong things people do. By their own evil lives they hide the truth.19 God shows his anger because some knowledge of him has been made clear to them. Yes, God has shown himself to them.20 There are things about him that people cannot see—his eternal power and all the things that make him God. But since the beginning of the world those things have been easy to understand by what God has made. So people have no excuse for the bad things they do.21 They knew God, but they did not give glory to God or thank him. Their thinking became useless. Their foolish minds were filled with darkness.22 They said they were wise, but they became fools.
John S. on Oct 3, 2008
Amen to #69 People think they know it all, when GOD knows all. Why think, when HE knows? I just wanted to comment and say that GOD loved us so much to come down to our earth that he is outside of and put on human flesh, JESUS CHRIST, and beared our sins, just to give us a way to heaven, GOD wishes that no man perish and go to hell. I hope the HOLY SPIRIT convicts hearts of the unrepented lost souls. GOD BLESS
BlessedOne on Oct 4, 2008
v., what is your meaning of religion?
jim c on Oct 4, 2008
So they should really call this movie "Dumb People Believe In God Too". From what I've gathered Maher has failed to interview people with more knowledge of the Bible than your average joe. All he did was make dumb people look dumb which can be done on any topic. Rather than pose the question to well rounded individuals he simply abused the minds of religious freaks who are easier to dominate with rhetoric. The movie is supposed to be funny, but allowing people to make competent rebuttals is far less amusing than "Go to Hell Devil-Man". I guess yet another title for this movie could be "Bill Maher Pats Himself on the Back for 90 Minutes".
Not that New on Oct 6, 2008
I just saw the film Religulous and applaude it (to say the least). I appreciate Bill Maher and the others involved in the film for having the courage and good sense to make it. As a member of perhaps the most maligned minority (agnostics/atheists) it feels good to have something finally in the mainstream media that represents my beliefs. I used to be a very faithful Christian until I faced the facts about tremendous suffering throughtout history. Then I realized we are probably on our own, which I think is even more reason to treat the earth and each other even better than if we thought God would do the right thing. This is where some of you will make excuses for your God that we have free will; therefore, nothing bad is God's fault. A just, loving, omnipotent God would not give freewill to those who torture, rape children, and do many other horrible things. I am aware of many atrocities done in the name of religion. I also see many benefits to religion for some people, giving people comfort, hope, a sense that something strong and powerful and just loves them, of belonging to a caring group, of being part of something they see as good for them and larger than they are. Maybe we need a new humanistic, earthistic religion focusing on trying to treat the earth and everything on it better than we're doing now. Shouldn't we just do that anyway, with or without religion. I think the film may be almost as much of an important and historical turning point in people thinking about religion as was An Inconvenient Truth for the environment. It was quite entertaining and funny, while also serious and profound. Its intention was to try to help us from destroying and being destroyed in the name of religion and to try to help save the U.S. and Israel, and the rest of the world. Wish it could be shown everywhere in all languages; wish people everywhere got it. Sadly, things like suicide bombings, war/genocide, and downright cruel treatment by judgmental zealots will continue until more people start getting it.
DoGoodinNC on Oct 7, 2008
Respectfully to DoGoodinNC, and others who share his beliefs: It is literally word for word, actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy (definition of literally taken from dictionary.com) amazing how hurt and bitter the world has made you become. God created you, me, and all other living beings on this planet, and we are not accidents nor are we accidentally here. He does give us all the ability to choose and we do so based on our environments and other things that HAVE GIVEN US OUR OWN WORLDVIEW. If the Holy Spirit intervenes in a life and that life responds then that person's life can be changed forever. I, personally cannot speed up this process for any man, woman, or child, but I can pray hoping what the Holy Spirit can truly bring a person comes upon you in a way it has not, as of yet. God is good always, regardless of how we feel about it. I could give you my life testimony, but right now is not the time. What John S. says above can be grasped but you have to believe and there has to be divine intervention. Knowing not all things, but knowing Jesus saves, I love you, jim c.
jim c on Oct 8, 2008
Maher Mockery of Muslims May Backfire In Religulous, already released in 500 theaters, comedian Bill Maher travels to numerous religious sites, such as Jerusalem, the Vatican, and Salt Lake City, interviewing believers from a variety of backgrounds, including Jews for Jesus, Christians, and Muslims. THIS ARTICLE OF COURSE DID NOT CHANGE MR. MAHER'S DECISION TO RELEASE IT. Best-selling author and TV co-host Ray Comfort said, “I don’t blame Bill Maher for mocking religion. Manmade religion has left a trail of destruction throughout history--from the Roman Catholic Inquisition, its famous Crusades against Islam, and pedophile priests, to hypocritical Protestant ministers and money-hungry televangelists. I can see why he took the trouble to make the movie. In one sense, it’s overdue.” However, the author said that although the film is bound to be popular in the U.S., it may badly backfire on Maher. Comfort said that in 2007 he befriended the atheist who received national attention for encouraging other atheists to post videos of themselves blaspheming God. "I emailed him explaining that Muslims translate the name ‘God’ as ‘Allah,’ and suggested that he rethink what he was doing. Muslims killed a number of people for merely publishing cartoons of their prophet Mohammad. I also reminded him that author Salmon Rushdie is still hiding in fear of his life for his Satanic Verses. All it would take is a report on Arab television that Americans were making videos blaspheming Allah and saying, ‘And I am not afraid,’ to stir a response. After I sent that email, the blasphemy challenge seemed to disappear very quickly.” Comfort warns that Hollywood has gotten away with mockery of Christianity, but many Muslims aren’t so tolerant. “How will they react to a movie that critics describe as ‘a blasphemous detonation of all things holy’? Even Maher’s casual jesting with his Jesus could be offensive to Muslims, who believe Jesus was a prophet. Imagine if the movie catches the attention of Arab news, which reports, ‘American Comedian Mocks Allah in Popular Movie.’ Already, the International Herald Tribune’s lead article was titled “Maher vs. God.” The movie’s website http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/ links to a site that has a Muslim symbol with the word "Bastard" beside it. While that site has a sense of anonymity, the famous comedian doesn't, as his face is easily recognizable. I wouldn’t want to be in Maher's shoes, or even in the seat of a theater that upsets Muslims. We are living in volatile times. We don’t need this sort of thing right now--religious intolerance. I seriously suggest that he postpone the release date, and do a little last-minute editing.” The Canadian Press said that Maher “dissects organized religion, but he's doing it in his laceratingly funny, typically sardonic way . . . But Maher undermines his arguments at the end when the tone turns sharply serious: He tries to make a connection between religion and all the wars and violence in the world, and he does it with the same kind of certitude he just got done condemning others for having.” Comfort added that he also believes Maher is straining at gnats and swallowing a camel with his movie. “He is speaking the truth when he talks of religion’s trail of destruction. But religion comes in second when it comes to committing atrocities down through the ages. Atheistic communism is number one. It is responsible for more than 100 million deaths. The problem isn’t religion or atheism. It’s human nature. That's what needs to change.” Comfort is the author of Hollywood Be Thy Name (Bridge-Logos), which looks at Hollywood’s history of blasphemy and why it is so out of step with mainstream America. It explains why movies such as Religulous wouldn’t have made it to the box office before the 1950s, and what it was in 1962 that opened the floodgates to unrestrained blasphemy. Distributed by http://www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
jim c on Oct 8, 2008
JUST saw the movie - It was exactly what this country needs, a poke in the ribs, a good laugh - at itself. Then a serious, "NO, seriously, you ARE crazy and need to stop". Between this and Zeitgeistthemovie dot com - I am ready to give up the ship and move far far away from the land of the "free".
I Want Freedom FROM Religion on Oct 8, 2008
Great movie -- bring a religious friend to see it. America really needs to watch this.
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Goose on Oct 9, 2008
Saw it last night, one of the best documentaries that ive even seen.
Tom on Oct 10, 2008
You don't need to be an atheist to reject religion. There are a lot of us too. To me, it makes much more sense that everthing was the result of something. In fact, we have absoluetly no evidence that something can result from absolutely nothing. In our world, every effect is the result of a cause. The problem is defining the "cause". For me that cause is what we try to explain as "God". The differences in the messages of the messengers of various "causes" is the root of conflict between the different religions. Then people striving to find purpose in their life make themselves the enlightened few and criticize anyone who disagrees. Ego takes over and then we start justifying bad behavior in the name of our "god". Trust me. If their is a God, He doesn't need you to accomplish anything for Him. I really like the site http://www.bottomlineredefined.com because it takes religion out of the equation but emphasizes that we have a real responsibility to do good things and create good results. Fighting about whose religion is right is simply hypocritical according to every religion I'm familiar with. But again, that doesn't mean there is no God, only that we've done a very poor job of understanding what God is.
B.P. Manny on Oct 10, 2008
[And why does Bill Maher spend so much time trying to downgrade other's beliefs? I let him have his lack of beliefs. I grieve for his lost soul. BCT on Oct 1, 2008] If there were souls, u'd have lost yours long ago due to your religion, what you are saying there is exactly what the Christian religion does to non-believers: Convert. If you really cared about others, you would let them have free will and choose their beliefs instead of scaring them with notions of going to hell if one doesn't believe in "THE SAVIOR" pshh fuck your religion and your evil ways. you guys piss me off everyday with your crap.
doG on Oct 10, 2008
I hate Religion. It sucks big time. I read and pray and study the Bible at home away from fools who only want my money and control of my mind. Religious leaders of all faiths are sick and twisted and down right evil. I don't believe anything they say, every time I was in church or heard one of those lairs say anything in reference to a Biblical matter I had to look it up to make sure, they were talking straight, and EVERY single time they opened their mouths to speak about it, they changed the scripture just enough, or put just enough of a spin on it, to make it seem to mean whatever they wanted it to. OMG, You practically need a Theology degree to keep their serpentine utterings straight in your own ears. And their true God is MONEY MONEY MONEY! And if they get all of your money, then they'll try and get sex from people, if they can't have that anymore, they'll want to abuse your children, and if they can't have that anymore, they want someone to die, usually in the most gruesome manner they can think up. I know this is true because they seriously believe in A loving God that will torture people for infinity for finite offenses. The Eternal Hell belief is another Pagan load of Bull that got wormed into the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief system thousands of years ago. Hell just simply meant the grave and the word “forever” was never part of the Scripture, the religious people erased the word “Age” with it. And the Lake of Fire OMG, that was a reference to God’s Holy Spirit burning away the sin and corruption, and the soul of that sinner is then purified and washes up on the shore of the Lake, which is why it is called a Lake and not an Ocean, because God’s true Spiritual form is fire. Read Hebrews, all you Religious lying know-it-alls. Religious people don't have or know any thing about God other than what another equally disturbed religious expert person has told them. And I could go on and on about what Religious Chrstians got wrong about God, but I neither have the inclination nor the time to do so. I know these things, becuase I am Spiritual minded about God. And I keep Him to myself, unless a day should come that my God is performing miracles through me, and that has not happened and likely won't. And All you religious People need to keep your mouths shut about your take on God, unless you are performing indisputable miracles like Moses and the like. The religious world would be stone-cold quiet then and everybody that wanted to know about God would seek Him out on their own, guided by His Spirit, UNMOLESTED by willfully misinformed religious charlatans. You should just quietly print your Bibles, have your services, only speak of God outside of church to others, when asked to do so, by the ones asking. UNLESS You got miracle Power backing you up! If not, SHUT UP and leave people alone, because God is not speaking through you.
David Weiser on Oct 10, 2008
David W., you are as crazy of a lunatic as I have ever read. In his famous book Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us." http://www.greatcom.org/resources/whoisjesusorig/lordliarlunatic.html I am giving you a link here to a site that can give you information. What you do with that information is totally up to you. Your life will not be changed if your heart is hard, and the Holy Spirit does not bring you to God. I pray for your salvation. There is a real HELL and there is a real HEAVEN and I know someday I will be in Heaven with all of the other overcomers. I hope you are there with me. jim c.
jim c on Oct 10, 2008
Me a Crazy Lunatic? That’s what you Religious People do . . When faced with Real Truth. You resort to name calling because you can’t handle the truth. You believing and even loving the idea of God making someone spending eternity in Torture beyond imagination is Not crazy? And me deciding to spend my time alone with God in peace and wonder and tranquility IS? And as far as the Great Commission goes, who was Jesus speaking to? Believe it; it wasn’t you or me? He was speaking to people who preformed miracles in his name. No one is doing that today at least not publicly, only the frauds like Benny Hinn are trying to make it seem like they are. That’s written in the Bible that YOU say, you believe in. Also, why do you base your source of indisputable proof of faith NOT on God’s Holy Spirit but on words of book that is only about 400 years old and has been mishandled, poorly fabricated, edited, and altered so many times that it staggers the mind. Keep in mind that I am not anti-Jesus, I believe in Jesus of Nazareth as Lord, Christ, and Savoir of myself and every person that has been born and ever will be born. I am however against Church as it exist today. Its vomit inducing BULL! Don’t you understand that Jesus and Paul, who both performed miracles by the way, and so have the right to speak publicly about it, prophesied that it would be like this? That in the Last days that before the Antichrist appears that there would be a Great falling away first? Ask yourself what kind of falling away? It couldn’t be Church attendance, because there was less Church attendance in the days it was uttered than today seeing that Church was so tiny back then. The great falling away is referring to Spiritual truth being sacrificed for religious error. Making up their own fables in a book that came into existence for the first time 1500 years after Jesus lived on Earth and based loosely on letters that MAY have been written by those that saw the originals 100 or 200 years after Jesus lived on Earth, but nobody really knows for sure. And you call me crazy? LOL Please please stop. I am can’t stop laughing Ha ha ha ha he he he he
David Weiser on Oct 11, 2008
David, this is actually kind of fun. You seem so angry and I am laid back, calm, and relaxed. And me deciding to spend my time alone with God in peace and wonder and tranquility IS? how, when, and where you spend your time with God is between you and Him. The Bible does though want us to worship corporately. It says so in scripture. I apologize for the name calling. That is not really me! The great commission: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-great-commission.htm - well it is for all believers to carry out. You see I believe in miracles, I am one myself. And you are as well. You were known by God while you were still in your mother's womb. Now you are out in the real world and things have upset you and the Holy Spirit's intervention is not evident right now. Jesus is not everyone's Savior, only those who believe and receive His gift of eternal life. You see God/Jesus are no respectors of persons. They would want all to come to repentance but there has to be a real life change ignited by the fire inside, the Holy Spirit. I love you man, and so does Jesus, but you are off base when it comes to understanding His ways and His truths. Sincerely, jim c.
jim c on Oct 11, 2008
Angry? Yes, I suppose that I am. It’s not sin to be angry, however, The sin is often mistranslated along with so many other things in religious circles. You can be angry, but you can’t express deadly contempt. That is where the line between Anger and murder in one’s heart lies. But my Apologies anyway, and I also accept your's, but perhaps I should better explain my indignation. As for worshiping “corporately,” as you worded it. Let me remind you by again asking “who was the verse directed to?” "Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves to together." I believe that is the common verse used to express the sentiment that you have expressed. That is directed at the Christians of Jesus time, not us. And why not us? Because today, you can't believe anything anymore. All things have been infiltrated by the devil and his minions, masquerading as ministers of light. Even Churches and their leaders are corrupted and beyond hope, they have all sold out. There is nothing and no one on earth that you can put your trust in. Only true private and personal faith in God can save you know, and really it was the only thing that ever could. All things on this earth are under the sway of the Spirit of Antichrist and have bought the counterfeit definitions of truth and created a seeming truth that is palatable. Look at the definition of Antichrist from the Book of John. (One that denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh) That is the English-watered-down-translation. And much too broad to identify the one until it is so obvious who he and they who follow him are, and by that time you won't need this description to identify those who of this spirit . But here is the definition as it was rendered in its originality before religious experts altered it into our language so that they could hide what they are. ANTICHRIST - One who denies that the Christ (The Holy Spirit) became born as Jesus of Nazareth by conceiving (fathering) Himself miraculously in the womb of a virgin. Therefore Jesus of Nazareth is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in one body. And as such was crucified and died and rose up from the dead. Therefore an antichrist is one the will deny that The Holy Ghost was Crucified and died. It’s all in the name. Jesus Christ actually means “Jesus, The Holy Spirit” Just look at the Unpardonable sin described in Mark. You can say things against the Son and Father and still be forgiven. But you can’t say anything against The Holy Spirit. That only applies to the ones ignorant of the truth about Jesus being the Father and The Holy Spirit. Once one reads or hears the truth about this in the Scriptures and still proclaims that Jesus is just merely the Son, or perhaps even less, then that person has proven themselves to be of the Spirit of Antichrist, and if alive during the time that the Antichrist is finally incarnated in person, They will be unable to resist him and shall worship him as God, because in the mind of such a person, he will be. Oh, and one more thing . . . You obviously don’t appear to know the difference between being “Saved” and being “Reborn or rather Born Again"
David Weiser on Oct 11, 2008
David, you have some fairly decent inquisitions, but you are wrong on several things. First of all, we, as Christians today, should live just as Christians did in Jesus' day if not on a greater level because of a faith, a faith where Christians of Jesus' day could see and touch God in the flesh. I am excited to interact with you even if only over the technology super highway, it is really a pleasure. I would though love to meet you and visit face to face, but I don't know if that is in His plan or not. As to knowing the difference between being saved and being born again, I don't know where you came up with that one, but I know the difference pretty well. I only wish that you were receptive to the real message of life saving eternal life that Jesus again gives us freely if we are willing and able to receive it. We, as Christians have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. We are told to work out our salvation, and this is basically a continual process. And I can say I am fleshing it out even as I process this message. Our, Christians, being born again, refers to a rebirth that only takes place b/c of our receiving Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord, but again for Jesus to be Lord it has to or should be evidenced in our everyday walk with Christ. You definitely have some interesting things to say, and I hope you return to your first love that could have been Jesus, though I am not sure, so that you can have eternal life and have it in abundance. In Christ, Jim Cooke
jim c. on Oct 11, 2008
I had eight years of Notre Dame nuns and four years of Xaverian Brothers. I know my Bible stories very well. I now know the whole thing. This heavily Christian area I live in will never show such a movie. I can't get to see Bill on Friday nights because I don't get HBO. Bill Maher is the first person that I can totally agree with concerning religion and politics. I wish I had an e-mail friend. I have taken my thought process a little further. I hate to admit this, but I suppose I am an atheist. I read where Bill is an agnostic. Most people that believe in all that stuff are happy. I am not. No one has ever come back to talk about it. Life starts with sperm and egg squigglings and ends with the last beat of the drum. I also heard that Bill doesn't know where we go after life. I believe that first you decompose and you go to bare bones and probably some hair. Your DNA will live forever unless you go back to ashes. People get religious nearing death. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Life started about 4.55B years ago. I don't understand the "He" in God. The first cells were asexual. I can believe in "It." Also, I have concluded at the beginning of time, there was Energy. Could Energy, in fact, be the "Source?"
Dan Kelly on Oct 11, 2008
Could someone contact me if they want to share understanding? firstname.lastname@example.org
Dan Kelly on Oct 11, 2008
jim c on Oct 11, 2008
Jim, you say I am wrong on several things. Based on what? My contradiction of a book that has been proven extremely fallible in all areas except archeology? And the only reason it is so is because religious experts of the ages even immediately after Moses’ day decided to alter the wordings of things a little bit here and there, because things it said didn’t make sense to them. The only thing you did mention is that WE, Christians (as if I would call myself such a thing, now that WE have completely destroyed its original meaning ) should live as the Christians lived in Jesus day only to a greater degree? OK then, go sell everything you own and give away all your money to the poor, if that is what you REALLY believe. That’s what the REAL church did in the first century. But you won’t, because you don’t really believe in Jesus more than they did and I am certain that it is considerably less than they did. I know my faith is considerably less than that, and it seems mine is greater than yours, since I seem understand much deeper issues than you appear to. You say that you would love to met me in person, I don’t think you would enjoy that very much, because you would fail to re-enslave me to the same religious vampirism that has turned you into one of the undead. And I’ll bet your excited to interact with me you’ve probably never met anyone else like me, someone who knows the truth behind the truth. The difference between being saved and being Born Again is so simple and easy the religious have done everything they can to destroy that difference. Because if people really knew what it was and then believed it during this life, it would destroy their power over them. But the religious must have that power, it’s the Holy Spirit of their God, MONEY. The difference is this . . . . EVERYONE is Saved, but only a few are Born Again. Being Born Again is a choice that no one is able to make, God decides it. Does it say that no one comes to Son unless the Father draws him? Or does it say that God asks you to come to the Son if you only feel like it? The Book of Romans says that there is no Free-Will. How can there be Free-Will if God predestinated everyone’s fate like it says? And then it goes on to say that we don’t even have the right to question’s God’s decision to punish the evil people, since He made them to be what they are. What’s Justice in that? The fact of the matter is that it is totally unfair for these things to be true, if Eternal Hell Fire is true too. And if so, then God is an evil beast greater than Devil’s wildest fantasies. But the truth about Hell is that it was made up it came from Babylon and latched itself onto certain parts of Scripture that was gradually tweaked over time to make it appear true. But there other parts of the Bible that they missed that shows this inconsistency, but you really have to be paying attention to notice them. Like in the end every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, that was derived from the verse in Revelations where every creature in the entire universe (Including those in Hell) will be praising God. Now how or even why would a person do that in Hell, their to busy enjoying their torment, I doubt very much that you or I could be praising anyone while screaming in flames forever. You wish that I was receptive to the message of eternal life? You say that like I know even less than you. I already did all the listening to Religious Witchcraft that I care to. You say work out our salvation? Another religious error. You can’t work it out. It’s a free gift. That is another, of so many, altered verse originally designed to mean that you must work out the understanding of its mystery not work out to receive it. And then you say that is only WE Christians that are saved. How arrogant, You just shown me that you, like the rest of them, don’t have the slightest desire to help anyone and that your sole biases for believing what you believe is because you want to be served rather than to serve, in fact you want a God that will impersonate a “Well, I’ll show them.” type of thing. At the root of a typical modern Christian’s heart is a desire for revenge on what they perceive as the wicked. They subconsciously and sometimes not so subconsciously want people to pay for enjoying their lives, while their not supposed to, even though secretly they do the same things, but then that just feeds into their desire to punish the wicked more, so that they can feel better about their own sin. YOU TALK LIKE I DON”T KNOW THIS ABOUT YOUR KIND? Jim, I'm sorry, but I'm done talking to you. You don't even understand your own Religion. And Dan, I wouldn't mind discussing a few things with you, but removing intelligent design from the universe is a hard pill to take, Science has been unable to do that, even Bill Maher’s favorite atheist Scientist reluctantly admitted that intelligent design is an indisputable fact
David Weiser on Oct 12, 2008
David, this is Jim Cooke's son and I am 14. Even I know more about spirituality and God than you. Please, open a Bible and read about Christ and He will do amazing things for you. In Matthew, it talks about the wide and narrow gates, you, as of now are going down the wide path and through the wide gate that leads to destruction. If you would open your eyes and soften your heart, you will not go into the firery depths of HELL!!! The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and belief in Him, the unforgivable sin is a hard heart that doesn't turn to Jesus. If you don't listen to a 45 year old man please listen to a 14 year old Christ-following genius. Sincerely, WC. P.S. My father is deeply upset with the fact that you are so ornery that you have stopped talking to him. Hope to hear from you soon. Adios Muchacho
WC on Oct 12, 2008
To: David Weiser I wouldn't mind emailing or chatting about understanding. email@example.com
Dan Kelly on Oct 12, 2008
Dear WC. I don’t have a lot of time right now. I posted quite a bit yesterday, because I had the day off. Today I am not so fortunate. I need to leave for work, so I need to do this quickly. I won’t verbally beat on you the way I appeared to do to your father. I do feel a little guilty about that, but he made it so easy for me. Most Religious Christians do. I would like to with care point out that the English Bible is merely a Translation of the Word of God, more so a translation of a copy of a copy. Once you understand and I hope for own sake that you will someday, that the Scriptures weren’t originally written in English. And once that fact is establish as truth for you, then you can begin to know the deeper issues and where the line is drawn between what is truly Spiritual and of God and what is religious error. I am sadden by the fact that your have been infected with religious error and I would assume that it was from Father, although it could be from another source. Anyway I would encouarge if you ever did come to understand some of the things that the Lord has revealed to me over the years, that you would still respect your father, I don’t believe He knows any better, that’s what makes its sadly frustrating fore me. Anyway once get there (if you get there) in your understanding, that English is not the true Language of Scripture, assuming that you don’t have it already, I would ask you, why you believe in Eternal Hell or some such place, when the original languages of the Scripture makes no mention of such place or state? If you really want to know what I am about and what I believe, then you can look at one of Myspace pages that tells the whole story. I am serious about this I am giving up extra time at my Job and losing profit just typing this up for you. Just that I’d let you know that so that you would not think I am just saying things to be saying them. Please read the blogs that describes some of the issues. The things there are from the deepest places of my heart. I am taking a great risk fir ridicule in revealing this link so please treat it with courtesy. If not then I can not guaranty you any from me, regardless of your youth and lack of worldly experiences. You say that you are at least know of more Spiritual Truth than I do? If only that could be true. Best wishes, Christ be with you. Dave My link is http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=196914722
David Weiser on Oct 12, 2008
David, sorry you have to go to work today, I just had an enjoyable meal after a wonderful Sunday School session with my family. It is good that you have a chance to vent, but your going around in circles is sorta amusing. You see, the New Testament was originally written in Greek, and realize I know enough about scripture and a lot, a whole lot about God and His working in my life as well as His working in your life. I also know that the original text of the Old Testament is Hebrew, and God Brew it among men so that what they wrote very great words of wisdom for us all to understand, but your lack of understanding and wanting to understand is what drives you away from a MOST LOVING GOD. God bless your entire life, Jim Cooke
jim c. on Oct 12, 2008
Ok, I thought I was done because I am trying to spare you, Jim. Do you really want to do this? I mean you seem like a nice enough guy. Although it would be interesting to see how far down the rabbit-hole you're willing to fall. As much as it pains me to do so. I'll put side my verbal jabs, ohh so tempting that they are everytime you utter things to me and I'll carefully pose a question or you could. Or perhaps you should just stop uttering those ridiculous Oxymorons like: “but your lack of understanding and wanting to understand is what drives you away from a MOST LOVING GOD.” That is nonsensical since God is everywhere, all the time, and loves everyone everywhere all the time. You see how easily painful you make this for yourself? Because I disagreed with you, I am disagreeing with a God that would love me, if I didn’t. That’s putting yourself in God’s place and then at the same time limiting God’s capability to love me and disguising this as God’s contempt for me. Why don’t you be brave enough to admit that it is you that feels this way. You’re just hiding behind God, or rather your concept of Him. Just thought I'd get one more in though, I couldn't resist it.
David Weiser on Oct 12, 2008
No more than "God" or "It" can control the storms, war or the holocausts, can "It" have emotions. If "It" existed at the beginning of time (14B years ago,) then "It" preceded life. Point is "It" is not a "person," therefore, "It" cannot talk to people or in any other way communicate to us. Much can be explained as coincidence. Energy existed at the "beginning." Energy exists today. There is original energy and life made energy. "Cave men" used kinetic energy with the wheel. Even the first form of life (the squiggly asexual single cells in a pool of water) needed energy. The dinosaurs had energy. What makes a heart beat? Water has much to do with life. It is a sustenance. All humans lived in their mother's water "bag" prior to birth. Dan Kelly
Dan Kelly on Oct 13, 2008
Hello Dan, I was about to Email You. But I suppose we can talk here. Are you sure you want refer to God as an "It"? As uncomfortable as that makes me, I'll go along for the sake of discussion. Most religious Christians refuse to look at any science that seems to contradict their take on English rendering of Scriptures. Mainly a verse in Timothy where The Apostle Paul is telling Timothy not to be fooled by those who study the sciences, which is falsely called so. So they are reluctant to put total believe in anything Science has to say about anything that explains Origins of how anything came about. Also in the Gospel of John that says that Jesus created everything before He was incarnated as a flesh and blood man. The matter is too complex of an issue for them to resolve the too seemingly opposing concepts in their narrow viewpoints. So most people, including non-Christians either believe one concept or the other. However, we know that the universe is vast beyond comprehension and the possibilities and the occurrences of randomness are infinitely so great that even smartest atheist or unable to explain how it came about by chance. I, on the Contrary have excepted both views as valid. My reasoning is quite simple. I know that the Sciences of Paul’s time was not the sciences of today, however they have the conceptions in those of Paul’s time. The science of Paul’s time was Philosophy and Mathematics and Astrology and only one of three of those had any worthwhile use “Math”. Paul was warning Timothy about how Greeks love of Philosophy would creep in and distort the Gospel message, and that is why we have the religious quagmire today, because the philosophy of religious fools have taken over and has buried much of the truth of the Gospel so much that we have to do some serious digging to uncover it, and we can only do it with God’s help. No more than "God" or "It" can control the storms, war or the holocausts, can "It" have emotions. I don’t know how old the universe is I doubt that we can even be sure at our current level of technology. But it is far older the current Religious assumptions can even attempt to explain. We have structures on Earth that can be dated back to 30,000 years, so there was civilization on Earth before the Biblical records, the Bible hints at such things, but the religious have hushed it up. Extinct remains of animals that lived and died millions of years ago, regardless of whether or not Evolution took place, does detract from the fact that they existed and when they existed. And Science has used mathematics, they only infallible measuring device in existence, to measure the tiniest particles of matter and even light to determine how old stars are by how long their light has been traveling, the details of these things are way over my head. But they have determined that the Universe is billions of years old and in that time in all the vastness of infinity. We are the only civilization that came along? Yeah, right. There is at least three places in Scripture that can be used to prove that Mankind was not solitary civilized inhabitants of the universe. I believe that the words Elohim, and angels, and gods were used to describe inhabitants of other civilizations that existed prior to man and their advanced capabilities. I believe that the records of Babylon can shed a bit of light on this too. The first chapters of Genesis in the Bible up to the time of Noah seems to gloss over things a great deal. Babylonian records predate the Bible by at least a thousand years and was treated as seriously then as the Bible is today. I believe the Biblical accounts but things are omitted, watered down, and sometimes just plain altered by the religious of the day, to keep things in control. For example Bill Maher likes to use the “Talking Snake” of Genesis to point out just how ridiculous the story is. And he is right it is absolutely stupid, but did Bill Maher ever to to find out how the “Talking Snake” came into the story to begin with? No. Because he is an Atheist even though he won’t admit it. It is easier to let people believe in the Talking Snake as the Entity that tricked Eve, rather than have to explain what it really was and then How it got there and a numerous other can of worms that it open to destroy the faiths of those who too weak to handle the real truth. The snake aspect came from the word “Serpent” as it is rendered in the Bible. However words have more than one meaning. The Serpent not only refers to a legless creature that slithers around in subtlety it also meant “Beguiling, wise, and beautiful.” But even that was not the original word used. It was “Nachash” ( I might have misspelled that) It means “A sorcerer, wizard, wiseman.” that’s right, a human being that was a practicing Sorcerer. The religious experts replaced the word “Sorcerer” with another description to make the personage that tempted Eve more clearly seductive and beautiful. The word as it was originally rendered was proof that Adam and Eve weren’t the only people. Unfortunately, much later, different religious experts decided that it would be detrimental to their own plans to have people believing that there any other persons in the world other than Adam and Eve and so here we are with a story about a Talking Snake. I would enjoy to hear anymore thoughts on concepts you might have, Dan. Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 13, 2008
David, Dan, and all other seekers, Just go to http://www.wayofthemaster.com and pay close attention following all instructions and get back with me. Thanks, in sincere Christian kindness, jim c. just curious David, do you live in a Bible belt state or where?
jim c. on Oct 13, 2008
Dear Jim, thank you for reading my post. I will not put you down. I looked at some of your response. I can't relax long enough to read the whole thing. This what I know. Time began 15B years ago. That is not my idea (I mean this what I think, but I didn't invent it.) How did Jesus not know the world was not flat? If he knew it, would he have not broadcasted it? You have to REALLY think and try to put that story where it belongs (A New York Times Best Seller - Fiction.) Talk about verifiability, there's nothing true about it. The story taught me to be sensitive and I'm not saying that Jesus was the best example for us than any other person. The people of the bible probably really did live. One more thing, and then I better quit on this subject. What kind of a "God" would order someone else to kill that person's son. Was this a practical joke? If so, it was a sad joke. Do burning bushes talk? Jesus walked on ice. Lastly, what will you do when they find Jesus' bones? Does that discredit the Resurrection? Please don't tell me that the bible was inspired by "God." Again, if "God" had anything to do with the "Bang," then 'It" preceded life by 10B years. The first life were single asexual cells in a pool of water. Don't take my word for it, ask the smartest man on earth (Stephen Hawking.) Don't talk to me about a soul that was invented by man or a heaven. I used to think I would bowl and play golf everyday in heaven until they scared the shit out of me with the hell business. It does not exist. To carry my catious (that's cat-e-us) curiosity further, I am searching what happened BEFORE the "Bang." I am trying to google it but have not yet found the answer. Was it just empty space? Is not empty space something? I don't think I can be an agnostic. Agnostic's are people that want to have their cake and eat it to. I think it is braver to write it off as unexplained or simply no "God." For now, my "It" is Energy. It always was, is now and will forever be, long after the end of time. Wait a minute! That's it! If Energy continues after time, then it preceded time. The end. Think of this. There have been more developments in all aspects in the last Century than there has been in all of time preceeding. This includes science. Sure my educators were Nuns and Brothers. I went for the whole show. For example, one day I was alone in the house and looking out the window. I had read in the bible that man can move mountains. Well, there was a hill at the end of the street. I concentrated, brought all my faith together, squeezed my face and eyes and tried to move it. I was pissed. Later in life, I realized the impossibility of a virgin birth. Joseph must have had intercourse with Mary. Then the only way I know how to play dominos effected. Dan Kelly firstname.lastname@example.org
Dan Kelly on Oct 13, 2008
Dan, I do feel as if I want to dialogue with you more, and I will. You have given your e-mail address and I will share with you mine, if you do want to have dialogue, reciprocal conversation. Sincerely, jim c. by the way what state are you in, i'm in tx., are you in a Bible belt state???
jim c. on Oct 13, 2008
Jim, go ahead and email me. I am just letting you know where I come from (religiously.) I suppose I am most like Bill Maher. I'd give anything to communicate with him. I believe he is an "untouchable." However, I do have a mailing address for him Please email me. I respect your opinion. I believe that religious people are the happiest people. I suppose rich helps also. I know we disagree, however, the strongest benifit of religion is the social contact. What I miss the most is singing, shaking hands and giving the "sign of peace," hanging around after saying hello's and occasional activities. "Protestant" groups appear to have more of this. The whole thing is stupid to me. If there is a God, there is only ONE God. I even tried to be Jewish one time (because was a Jew) and a Unitarian another. All these quests got me where I am now. If religious people are happy, what do you think I am? I most definitely live in a Bible state. They would never show Bill's movie here in a million years (if "we") live that long. Google this > If you have not heard of the Winter Solstace in 2002. There are many references. I hope it isn't true. But I'd do something extra special the night before! Massachusetts then Kansas then Texas (Ft. Worth) then Kansas. As they say in Ireland, Toodle Loo!
Dan Kelly on Oct 13, 2008
One more thing I would like to blog. When I was a kid I modeled myself after J.C. until I had knowledge of sin which happened to be after the age of 7. Later, I wanted to become a priest but I found out you had to be an Italian to be Pope (European, I suppose, after the last two.) "God" forgive me; I think the current "God's" representative on earth is a Nazi. Totally "Religuous!."
Dan Kelly on Oct 13, 2008
Jim, I do live in a Bible State I did look at your website and out of curiosity listen to some of What Kirk Cameron was saying. Basically that the Church is failing to retain converts because they became disillusioned that the Christian Walk had Extra trails and troubles, that they were converted believing that Jesus was going to give them a wonderful fairy-tale existence here on earth. You gotta be kidding me. Do you really think that people are that simple minded? I wonder what kind of Trials and Tribulation Kirk C. ever had to go through, Stupid spoiled little famous rich boy doesn’t know anything or give a care about what real peoples’ daily troubles are. The reason that the people didn’t stick it out is two-fold. 1) The Father never really drew them to Him in the first place. 2) The church is full of frauds that don’t care about anyone and they found out and said “I’m out of here, you phoneys.” You don’t become Born Again by being made to feel guilty about your sin. It’s the Kindness of God that causes repentance. And even that Repentance is what God places in you, it’s from Him and not one shred of it is from you. Kirk C. and his ilk are snake-oil salesmen, of the old Addage, “You gotta get em’ Lost before you can get em Saved.” And I loved the way they quoted Bible verses but left out the verses above and below so that they could obliterate the context and replace it with their own. Like I said before, religious Christians, just want you to be enslaved into their mind control programs. They you need us in Church putting money in the plate. I quote Kirk C. “You got to get around their intellect, like Jesus did.” What! Jesus did no such thing. He didn’t slither or slide around anybody’s intellect, that’s what demons and devils do. Jesus responded to their intellect with intelligent discourse. Ohh Jim, you make me so very disappointed and sad. And I wish you would refrain from speaking to me like an ignorant unsaved fool. I was Born Again at age 16 and that was a long long time ago. And Hello Dan, I don’t have any reason to dispute your assumption of the age of the universe, you said “Time” But I assume you mean “this physical reality” since time is an intangible unit of measurement, more of a concept really than a thing. At lest your not trying dispute the exist of Jesus of Nazareth as some are trying to do, fruitlessly, because there is just to many mentions of this man in historical records outside the Bible within 30 - 60 years of the time Jesus was assumed to have walked the Earth. How did Jesus not know the world was not flat? If he knew it, would he have not broadcasted it? I believe that Jesus knew that the world was round, because He created it, since He always was God, Himself. Barring that, ancient Jews, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, and Egyptians all knew that the world was round. There are artifacts that support this, the theory is that the knowledge was lost during the Dark Ages to be rediscovered during the Renaissance 1,000 years later. By the way, Christopher Columbus got the idea of the world being round because He had access to rare copies of ancient Greek writings. You asked “What kind of a "God" would order someone else to kill that person's son. Was this a practical joke? If so, it was a sad joke.” I am not sure what you are referring to here, Abraham being ordered to offer up his son Isaac? Or Jesus being sent by God to die? What are you talking about? It wasn’t a Burning Bush, it was God in his true form, “FIRE” Jesus walked on ice? No. I don’t think so, because water in motion won’t freeze solid. The Mediterranean is very volatile waters. What would I do when they find Jesus' bones? They won’t, but it would be funny if they did though, because then they’d have to admit that he existed. They would have a collective aneurysm trying to figure out what to do with the information. I personally would just be unable to believe it. Does that discredit the Resurrection? Yes, at least as we understand it. And I believe we all understand it pretty well. The Bible was never inspired by God. It is a poorly edited, mistranslated, badly mangled, and brutally misapplied copy of the Scriptures, which were inspired by God. You said - (if "God" had anything to do with the "Bang," then 'It" preceded life by 10B years. The first life were single asexual cells in a pool of water. ) I would be interested in hearing you explain that a little more. Dan, yes, the soul does exist. But you’re right about Hell, it’s made up. Hell just means “the grave” or “nothingness” it wasn’t until about a century after Jesus’ day that the concept began to gain acceptance. But previously the Jews knew that “the dead are aware of nothing.” That’s a quote from the Old Testament. But during Jesus’ time and shortly afterward death is often referred to as a “deep dreamless sleep” all the dead are in a non-existent slumber not even aware of the slightest thing not even the passage of time. That would explain how from the perspective of the one who dies they are instantly in the presence of The Lord for Reward or Judgment, Judgment being having your sins instantly seared away in God’s presence ‘Lake of Fire’ or entering Paradise with riches. No passage of time is noticed by them even if thousands of years went by. Most religious Christians want to shove the Parable of “the rich man and the poor man” under your nose as proof of Eternal Hell, and they are quiet successful at convincing the unBiblically uneducated, along with a few other mistranslated Scriptures like from the Book of Revelation. But what part of the words “IT’S ONLY A PARABLE (a made up story)” Don’t they understand? As for what happened before the Big Bang, Quantum Physicists assume that it was the death of another universe that collapsed in on itself then exploded, but whatever, they have come full circle in saying that before this universe was one before it, just like it. And this keeps repeating like a heartbeat. That is as best as I can understand such things. Well this was long, I hope I didn’t bore you. LOL Best wishes, Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 13, 2008
David, there are 19 possible Bible states in the 2nd paragraph below: I am from Texas, and you are from _________. I am 45 years old, have literally just recently been resurrected not literally but figuratively from a 40 year funk of sorts including much depression, and if there isn't a living, loving God, who is my Savior, and all that call upon Him, check out Romans 10:8-13; God who is righteous but is also jealous of anything we put in front of Him, God who judges the wickedness of man and who will dish out eternal punishment to all who do not believe in Him......... In His loving name, jim c. God Bless He finds two belts, one more eastern that stretches from central Florida through Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, North and South Carolina, and into Virginia, and another that is more western, moving from central Texas to the Dakotas, but concentrated in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Mississippi. In terms of demographics, the belt can accurately be described as extending westward to include most of West Texas and Eastern New Mexico, and perhaps even farther into areas of southern New Mexico settled by Texans. Additionally, the southern parts of Nebraska, Indiana, and Ohio are sometimes included.
jim c. on Oct 13, 2008
David and Dan, check out the site below - it is quite awesome. i someday hope to see you both in paradise!!! http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=818
jim c. on Oct 13, 2008
I haven't read the entire debate because it is too similar to the same debate you see throughout the "christian" blogs. I also have not visited any of the sites that you each have offered. But I'll say this. David W. you are correct on many points. Jim C. is referring to the clever "lord, liar or lunatic" argument that some Christians have used to "prove" that Jesus was Lord, since He didn't meet their predefined definition of liar or lunatic. In addition, they only give you three choices - liar, lord or lunatic. To the unthinking, this makes perfect sense and so it serves their purpose well. Now understand that I am not saying that Jesus is not God. I am not arrogant enough to imply that I know either way. But I am saying that there is a sort of elitist attitude among many who call themselves christians even though they act in ways that Jesus himself would never act. And that is really the barometer by which anyone who calls him or herself a "Christian" needs to measure him or herself. Many do not even come close unfortuneately and this goes for every religion. For example, if jim c was truly following the teaching of the Christ, he would not be trying to anger or antagonize you but trying to help you see that you are right on many of your points. But you need to let go of the negativity associated with your point f view. Create love. Create postive energy and see http://www.bottomlineredefined.com. He offers you an "I love you man" but he really doesn't love you or he wouldn't treat you the way he just did. I think if you considered your true feelings jim you would agree. This is typical of so many who believe that they are "enlightened" and that god speaks through them. Don't let it bother you. In fact, love them until they see things correctly. They are not bad people, just mis informed like many, many people who have been used and abused by organizations that actually create this atmosphere. For now, jim c., I suggest you think about the feelings you have when you "offer" advice and "love" to people like David. Jesus was pretty clear about this if you have ever read his teachings, which you may have. It is even more disturbing that these things get passed down to our children. We start them out in life creating negative feelings towards those who don't think the same way we do and that is dangerous, not just for those who are born into other religions and recieve their negativity, but for the very spirit and soul of us and our children. That should scare all of us.
B.P. Manny on Oct 13, 2008
B.P. Manny, I truly appreciate your comments toward me, and David and Dan, I apologize for probably being harsh. http://www.bottomlineredefined.com is way to scary to even touch, but I will look at it. Why do you like it, B.P.? You seem to have a good grasp of things, are you a true Christian? If you are I would really appreciate your checking out http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=818 and giving your opinion of why I might have put here in the first place. To each is given something, some more than others, but what we do with what is given is what matters, in Christ, jim c.
jim c. on Oct 13, 2008
Jim, I too, am 45 years old. I’ve seen things both in and out of the church that I wish I didn’t. In my walk with Christ mostly against my own Will. I’ve combat and have been victorious over insanity, depression, several physical debilitations, including blindness, war, poverty. I have seen some of the worst horrors and greatest wonders this life has to offer. And I have seen things from beyond this world both heavenly and hellish. I know what I know and I don’t need the links of regurgitated hypersters to make my points. I apologe for how arrogant much of this sounds but above all and most importantly I am humbled in my soul that a nobody like me has seen and experienced such things. And That’s what I am, a nobody, and that’s why God (Jesus) loves me, because I am a Nobody and any part of me that might appear to be something, It’s not mine, but His. And the reason I am so frustrated with you and others like you, is that you are not being real with me or any of the rest of us. Please stop referring me to these links of religious regurgitated hype and lies. I would love to hear what You think about your faith. Tell me what you believe in Jim. Because that’s what it is all about. What do YOU believe? And from there we can begin an intelligent discussion, without the posturing, the sarcasms, and the agitations. At least from me. I would feel more at ease with you. And I would likely let you just believe whatever you believe I would state whether or not I agree and why, but without the personal jabs, as I have tried to do with Dan and your Son. So why don’t we do that? Let’s be real with each other. And have an intelligent and informed conversation here. Best wishes, Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 14, 2008
You really want to know what's coming? This was vision from God given to me in 2002 AD. My link is http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=196914722 Laugh if you want to . . .You'll see in just a few short years.
David Weiser on Oct 14, 2008
Tell me what you believe in Jim! David, first of all thanks for being sincere. My son, more than myself, but I am also guilty, almost laughed at the length of many of your comments. But, I too, put in some long ones. I don't like seeming to be forceful or push my-self on others, but as you have, I have also been around the block a few times. I would not even try to compare any of my life with yours, b/c reading your #109 above, I see some greater pain in yours probably than mine. I don't think we can empathize very well when what you have encountered is not what I have encountered and vice versa. David, your question to me, "What do you believe?" is real. The question is real b/c it requires a real answer from me. And I could go around and around before answering it, but really it isn't that difficult for me to answer. I believe in being real. You see for that literal 40 year funk I wrote about in #105, I lived life in a whole lot of different directions. And when I could not make my life work, I could easily crater, and want to die. Miraculously speaking, God delivered me, and I hope I never return to what I was before His deliverance. I will respect what you have to say, but I know who Jesus is and I will not think any less of you if you don't believe who the real Jesus is or not. Don't try and argue for it will not do either of us any good. I want what is best for you as I also want what is best for me. You will lose your frustrations when you unconditionally surrender to the Real Jesus that lives inside of me. David, these are your words "And the reason I am so frustrated with you and others like you, is that you are not being real with me or any of the rest of us. I would love to hear what You think about your faith. Tell me what you believe in Jim. Because that’s what it is all about. What do YOU believe? And from there we can begin an intelligent discussion, without the posturing, the sarcasms, and the agitations. At least from me. I would feel more at ease with you. And I would likely let you just believe whatever you believe I would state whether or not I agree and why, but without the personal jabs, as I have tried to do with Dan and your Son. So why don’t we do that? Let’s be real with each other. And have an intelligent and informed conversation here." I will adhere to your rules above to the degree my Jesus wants me too. Smiling and feeling totally at peace, jim c. there are some songs I am thinking about and if you mention to me something about them next time I will link you up
jim c on Oct 14, 2008
So apparently, you believe that the things I posted earlier are laughable. No, the things I posted earlier were seriously thought out and TRUE. Unless you can make a case for anything I said not being so, which you haven’t. And I am still waiting for you to support your claims, which as far as I can tell is that there is nothing wrong with Christianity or the Bible. Which you have not supported with anything tangible and I have held back a great deal of the things I could say. As for being sincere, I was nothing less in every post. You never once appeared pushy to me, just lame, and I started to feel sorry for you and I still kind of do. I was not trying to compare my life with yours, yes I had it tough, but people have had it worse than me. My point was to let you know that I knew what I was talking about and I don’t need religious professionals to do my talking for me, which is what it looked like you were doing with all those different links to professionals who don’t at all seem that bright. You believe in being Real? Ok, a real what? My comment was meant to get you to think about what you believe in and then respond to me in words that are yours and completely original to you. For example if You believe in Eternal Hell. Tell me why? If someone else taught it to you then why was that good enough for you? That’s what I meant. Be real. I enjoy intelligent discourse, better yet, I want someone to tell me things that I don’t know, and never thought about before. Christians never do that, that is another reason I dislike them so much as a group. They just sigh and say idiotic things like, “Only God knows the answer.” Or “Don’t think, just believe.” Or The best one I ever heard. “Don’t go by your experiences.” Oh, I love that one. Which means stay dumb and stupidly quiet and just do what your told, no matter how ridiculous it is. I don’t know what kind of rescue you are talking about that happened to you. Are you saying that you placed yourself under the control of Religious group to give your life focus and direction? I never said that you don’t know who Jesus is. I am saying that you don’t know religious error from the truth. You, however do make the claim that is I dosen’t know who Jesus is and worse still, you imply that I am not even saved. When I told you that I was when I identified who Jesus was, in every detail necessary to be accepted by the Bible, you say that you believe in. Read Romans Chapter 10. Even if I were in error about Biblical matters, you have no right to condemn me as an unbeliever, as if I never heard the Gospel before, or have, but kept refusing to believe it, which I do. I never claimed not believe it. You said to me “You will lose your frustrations when you unconditionally surrender to the Real Jesus that lives inside of me.” I need to surrender? And since this Jesus you speak of, is inside of you and apparently not me. It must be yourself that I need to surrender to? Subconsciously that is what you are really saying to me. Also, you made the last-second stipulation that you will adhere to my rules if this Jesus that lives in you and not me says it’s ok. That’s really saying, “I will follow the rules only if I feel like it.” (and I don’t remember making any) I do remember asking if we could converse realistically without me making personal slights as long as you stopped resulting to use references to religious experts as if their words were yours. To say what you think about you believe and not what someone else has told to think about what they want you to believe. I don’t understand why you can’t seem to do that? So I’ll try even harder. Answer me this question, please. Why do you believe that Eternal Torment in Hell or The Lake of Fire is real? Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 14, 2008
David, you are wearing me out, but in a way that I still want to help you. I am by nature a helping person. Long ago, I wanted to rescue everyone, but that is not possible for my or you or any human being. As I was reading your first paragraph I thought please don't write too much, but then I scrolled and there are still a lot of words. I don't believe the things you wrote are laughable. You want to believe I think that way, but that is b/c you want your way in this matter. I may have linked you to professionals, but I am just a layperson. Nothing more, except for the fact God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit have gifted me with more than what some people may get gift wise. But I need to watch what I do and say, and I haven't done a great job in some of my postings, b/c to be honest I found most people writing here, AND YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM, to be lame and impenetrable, in terms of God's Holy Spirit. Unless, you or I or anyone else for that matter allows the Holy Spirit to work through them, than all else is matterless. Please do not be offended b/c that is the furthest thing from what I want to do. You see, David, my saying I am real, means I am authentic just as you can be authentic, and authentic what? An authentic Christian believer. You can in your very own den, kitchen, living room, or bedroom, or bathroom, pray to receive Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and Lord. I cannot make you do that, I cannot do it for you, YOU HAVE TO DO IT FOR DAVID, and you cannot do it unless you have a childlike faith that believes in what some people call is make believe. Jesus is real, He lived on this earth, born of a virgin mother, b/c the Holy Spirit placed Him within Mary, He was born, raised as a child of parents, but He was without sin. He lived a perfect life. He had a trade that He learned from his earthly father, but He knew also of His heavenly father, God, and as he grew in wisdom and in stature He sought continually God's will. He died on the cross carrying every sin we ever committed with him in his death, but the WE here is believers/Christians. I am forgiven and you can be forgiven, if you ask and believe and receive Jesus. I pray that you would accept what Jesus has for you, but again I cannot do it for you. In the Love of Christ, jim c.
jim c. on Oct 14, 2008
David, my previous post did not answer your question, Why do you believe that Eternal Torment in Hell or The Lake of Fire is real? However you believe, I believe the Bible is infallible and without error. Your seeming to think that it's being translated over and over again makes it less that what it is, doesn't sit well with me. I am not a Biblical scholar, but I know what I know because I know what I know. I have faith from God, and that is all I need. What other people have said to me over the years has both helped and hindered my spiritual growth. I don't want to talk over your head or anyone elses, but I have had it done to me, but many people don't do this on purpose, it just happens b/c they either do not know better, or they just aren't thinking when they speak. Usually I can type/process in great grammar with very minimal mistakes if any at all, b/c I will reread something and as an educator in a field of study that I have to check for errors, I have a keen sense for even when I make a mistake when I proofread something I have done in a hurried fashion. Well, since I believe in an infallible, errorless Bible, than when it says the sheep will go one way and that is to heaven and the goats will go another way and that is into hell, then I take that seriously. And in other scriptures it is simply made very clear to me that there is a Lake of Fire where unsaved sinners will spend eternity. Go to God, and he will give you a great life, jim c
jim c. on Oct 14, 2008
Dear Jim, I just got back from the movies. I watched a horror flick, called Quarantine, another campy Zombie movie kinda ify as far as they go. This is my other day off. I saw Religilous, a few days ago. And I enjoyed it, I find amusing is that people have complained that Bill Maher never ask anyone other than laymen of their faiths anything and maybe a few people only couple of rungs up from them. That was the whole point. Yes, he would have gotten better answers from professionals of the religious faiths he interviewed. But that was not the point that he was trying to make with his movie. He wanted to show and perhaps find out just why people are willing to believe anything just on someone else’s say so. And he did make people look like fools because of it. And you would be, if that was what the reasons were for believe something. I believe in Jesus, not because I read about him or had him preached to me. But because I started to have futuristic dreams and visions about Him not long after I began to seriously listen to what was said about Him. Many of them have come true some are still in the Future. Bill who told you that the Bible was infallible? Maybe the same type who told me. Religious experts with something to gain by lying about it. Hmmm? I beleive such a thing when historical facts have proven it to be other wise? Do you know how many times the Bible had to be rewritten and altered before the Religious and the Royalties of Europe allowed it to be viewed by anyone? This is historical fact. I do not believe that translating scripture detracts from it enough to damage it. But historical documents have proved that Scribes from long ago under orders from religious and political superiors outright altered certain wordings to other words that had similar meanings but in doing so changed the context of passages and sometimes even removed entire phrases and added new ones. Yet, you seem to believe that this is irrelevant? Why? You said “I am not a Biblical scholar, but I know what I know because I know what I know.” That is very telling. How can you be a “Good Christian” and not endeavor to find out everything you can about the only true indisputable relic of your faith? Not only that but saying that you know just because you know. Is utterly meaningless. Do you know because God told you? Sometimes Christians just say that they know becuase they know because it sounds like faith, but really it’s faith in nothing. It’s “I believe just because I do” sort-of-thing. That is a delusion, Jim. I like what you said about having Faith in God and it being all you needed, however it is nice to have that faith confirmed in Scripture. I personally no longer view the Bible as Scripture but as compass pointing toward the real Scripture buried underneath it. I no longer use the Bible to find out what God has said, But I ask God to tell me what the Bible really means or at least how to find out. So the Sheep (believers) go to heaven and the Goats (unbelievers) go to hell for an eternity? Ever ask yourself why is that a necessary thing from God’s perspective? Remember He knew who would go to heaven and hell even before He made the world. And even created them to be evil to show that he had power to do anything He wanted. And no one has a choice about where they will spend eternity that’s in the Book of Romans Chapter 9. And in Ezekiel God says that He created Evil, look it up. Also if the Bible is so inerrant why does God tempt Abraham to Offer up his Son Isaac? When God said “I change not, I am the same Yesterday, today, and forever.” and “Let no man say he is tempted of God, God temps no man.” Yet there He is in Genesis Tempting Abraham to kill his Son. And Later says to Abraham, when He saw that he was about to kill Isaac. He said, “Don’t harm the boy, because now I know that you fear God, and would not withhold the life of your son.” Hmm God, not knowing something? This doesn’t add up, Jim. Something is wrong. here, either the God of the Bible is not the God that the Church has described all this time, or the Scriptures have been poorly translated. And Since I know God, personally, and in spite of the errors of Christendom, they got the right concept of God, mostly. I am inclined to think that the translators of the past, messed up. Either accidentally or deliberately. And now as I explore this dilemma more and more over the years I am discovering that the errors in Translation are becoming more likely a deliberate act of petty power hungry evil men masquerading as Champions of Faith. God will be the Judge of them. Wouldn't be wonderful to know what the Scripitures really say and what these Evil Wolves in Sheep's clothing are hiding from us? I wonder what they are so afraid of. What's hidden in there Jim, what? Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 14, 2008
David, it is 5:53 a.m. and my first thought was THAT here is A website where people can comment about a movie and you and I are the only ones commenting anymore. I wonder if others think we are crazy or whether anyone is even coming to this site anymore. I have to say that this post by you, #115, has to be your best one so far. I guess where you say "I like what you said about having Faith in God and it being all you needed, however it is nice to have that faith confirmed in Scripture." I could counter every question/doubt you have with Scripture, but I did not think you wanted me to. Being the non-Biblical scholar that I am, I have come to believe what I believe, partially by what others have told me, but MOSTLY BECAUSE OF FAITH. FAITH IN A LIVING GOD! FAITH IN AN ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-KNOWING, AND ALL-EVERYWHERE/PRESENT GOD. I no longer need people telling ME what to believe, and for me it is not delusional, though I guess it could be for others; however, at one time in my life for QUITE AWHILE, IT WAS DELUSIONAL. I could go on and say it was delusional because of this or THAT, but I do not have to because God has in a since SPOKEN TO ME and it is more than just a sense of sorts, it is real. SO REAL IN FACT, THAT I CAN .......... do all things through Christ who gives me strength. I know this will be hard for you to grasp, this scripture from Philippians, VERSE 4:13, but it is true for me now AND WILL BE FOREVERMORE, because I used to think of this in a literal sense, but now I KNOW IT TO BE A FACT BECAUSE GOD EMPOWERS HIS PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE THAT WE CANNOT BELIEVE TO BE POSSIBLE SOMETIMES. You have a neat imagination, David, by the way you called me Bill up above, "Bill who told you that the Bible was infallible?" Well, you don't want to hear this one again, but I KNOW WHAT I KNOW BECAUSE I KNOW, AND BECAUSE "I AM" TOLD ME SO. Today, this morning, I will leave you with something I know you are probably very familiar with, and I will leave it with you in one of the more reliable versions of the Bible, altered, yes, but less than some: Hebrew Chapter 11, what is better known as the ____________________ CHAPTER OF THE BIBLE. You can fill in the blank because I know you know what to put there. I HAVE NOT WRITTEN WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN ABOVE TO TRY AND SEEM LIKE A HOLIER THAN THOU PERSON, A KNOW IT ALL OF SORTS, BUT I HAVE WRITTEN IT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT GOD WANTED ME TO WRITE. Another thing I am not, is a heretic. I believe what I believe because it is the TRUTH, AND MANY PEOPLE CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH, And you probably know even the movie that this similar line came from, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH", spoken in a movie, by one famous actor to another famous actor. WELL, I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!! And the truth comes only from GOD. In the Love of Christ, the most unconditional love imaginable. ARE YOUR JUICES FLOWING RIGHT NOW, OR ARE YOU A LITTLE UPSET, OR WHAT ARE YOU? ME, I am not trying to be arrogant, but because so many people think, Christians are intolerant, well in a since we are. JESUS WAS NOT TOLERANT, HE WAS VERY INTOLERANT. God Bless, jim c. signing off .... and as the little voice from AOL says, "goodbye" Hebrews 11 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. 23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. 24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. 30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. 31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. 32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
jim c. on Oct 15, 2008
JIm, I just woke up, it was 6:53 AM when I began reading your post. Thank you for the compliment. I see hope here finally. And I agree and about what people must think, but the Spirit of God, spoke to my heart, on it. “It is not for us, but a few others who might see this worked out between us, not for what seems to be the good or bad, by us, but for them who see two brothers of Faith come to greater understandings of truth. To see how the Grace of God can truly Operate in conception." Have you ever been in a face to face religious or Biblical conversations where you can’t really say what you want to say because the other person's personality or yours, or time constraints, detract from the issues. And nothing actually gets resolved but a few small pleasantries in conversation? That can not happen here. The truth will be reached here or one of us will give up trying. Yes, I accidentally called you Bill. Sorry, I was getting sleepy. And I was talking about Bill Maher earlier. So I siad Bill instead of Jim. You said. “Well, you don't want to hear this one again, but I KNOW WHAT I KNOW BECAUSE I KNOW, AND BECAUSE "I AM" TOLD ME SO” Well, now we’re getting somewhere. That is something real. That is something from you. God, told you to believe it. I believe that He did tell you to Believe the Bible. But I don’t believe He told you that it was infallible. Because if He did, then He lied, and since God can’t lie about anything, then I am sorry, it must be you that is. Perhaps unintentionally, I think you might have jumped-the-gun so to speak and went to an error in your conclusion as to what God meant. I have my own reasons for believing that. It so hard to get people to say such things. But I refer you back to earlier questions about the contradictions. I just showed to you in the earlier post that it *Bible* is fallible and how it became so. But you made no mention of an explanation. Other than the brief affirmation of the event of Abraham being tempted mentioned in Hebrews that you posted. Jim I, already know the answer to the dilemma, about Abraham being tempted by God, even though God does not tempt anyone. But I would like to hear it from someone else for a change. Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 15, 2008
Jim, one more thing, then I must leave for work. It's 11:20 AM now. I truly beleive that we are getting somwhere now. But I would like you to look at my web page and tell me what you think. It's about my earlier days when I called myself a Christian and the Visions of the Future that God gave me. I don't use the word Christian anymore to describe myself becuase today it doesn't mean what it meant when it was first coined. Please look at my page, I looked at the links you posted, even though they had nothing to do with you. Please return the favor, this page is all about me, I mean, as much as God willed to be. Thank you, Dave. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=196914722
David Weiser on Oct 15, 2008
David, I started this entry by copying and pasting both of your most recent posts here, working backwards basically from the newest one to the earlier one. We could be getting somewhere - I had already looked at your webpage and did not comment on it, b/c I did not feel it to be necessary at the time. You know long ago I believed some things I was experiencing as to be visions/signs from God, but what it was really were ploys of satan to get me off track thinking about something like that. I wanted what happened way back when to really be from God, but it wasn't. BUT I WANTED IT TO BE. I like to define Christian as a "Christ" one or a Christ follower, and that is what I am and you yourself could be one or become one again and possess that distinction for the rest of your life if you so choose to do so. For me, when I was very immature spiritually I wanted things to be my way, and if it wasn't then I pouted. God can and will work and shape and mold you as He has done me for eternity if you let Him. I used to think that if God were real than I would not suffer, and that when I did not feel His presence than He was gone. But in reality when we are or are not in touch with God He is still there. He is always there. Has always been there, and will always be there. In my life I realize when I did not think he was with me it was I who had moved. I am not one bit offended that you basically called me a liar, in that you say God could not have told me the Bible is infallible, but He indeed has let me know that in it's text as we read it, it is as accurate for us as it was for those who wrote it in the first place. There may be some word changes but it still applies to our lives, to the T. I am writing/processing this listening to your music from your myspace. I love the intensity of the Burly Brawl song from the Matrix. I like or liked your musical tastes. I love high intensity things like the music, and I like your choice of a couple of Christian musicians. “It is not for us, but a few others who might see this worked out between us, not for what seems to be the good or bad, by us, but for them who see two brothers of Faith come to greater understandings of truth. To see how the Grace of God can truly Operate in conception." I think I understand what you are trying to say here, but will not elaborate on it. God is all truth and I know the truth, and the truth has sometimes hurt me as I also believe it has hurt you. David, we know each other fairly well. You have an excellent of expressing your feelings on paper and even in pictures as evident in your myspace, but whatever happened to you to bring you to a loss of believing in Christianity I do not know, and will not even try to guess. I actually know that the traumas you suffered as a child can cause severe damage spiritually, emotionally, and mentally, as did some of my traumas me, but God has brought me through some of the deepest darkest valleys and now that I am on the other side, and hope to remain here for forever, I know that His intervention has made it possible for me to share what I have said here and earlier with you but as I am His, you too can be His fully if you want it. I don't know if you ever heard people say, when you were depressed, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but there were too many days in my life where I could not do it. I wish right now that I could say something that would be awe inspiring but all that I can think about is hoping that you could become free, free from whatever it is inside of you that torments your soul still. Hey man, God loves you and I know you know that, but what is inside can give us some of the worst feelings imaginable. I hope and pray that you will arrive at the WHOLE REAL TRUTH, AND COME TO KNOW YOUR SAVIOR IN A LIFE ALTERING WAY, ABLE TO STAND FIRM IN EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO. 2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. As for the Abraham story, God provided a lamb without blemish just as He did when He sent Jesus to the cross for you and I. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for all mankind and so God gave Him up for us. Isaac was not the perfect sacrifice, but it, the whole story, proved Abraham's belief/faith/trust in God to the fullest. God knew what Abraham would do, but without the story we don't have as much to go by when it comes to why we should believe in such an all-powerful Heavenly Father. once again in the Love of Christ, jim c.
jim c on Oct 15, 2008
Jim my dreams and visions are not a ploy from Satan. I find it fascinating that the first thing believers immediately assume is that everyone someone has a vision the first conclusion they jump to is that is from Satan. Any other source like an over active imagination, mental illness, or it actually being from God is always at the back of the list of possibilities I find that one of the most amusing things about the Christian Sect, as if they’re afraid God won’t protect them from Satan at all, so they must do it themselves. Man, God really doesn’t give that much of rat about you guys, does He? Jim don’t you know that everything is from God, both Good and Bad? He sent lying Spirits into the Mouths of Ahab’s Prophets. He sent The Devil to Test Job, That’s a clue as to what really happened with Abraham and Isaac. God doesn’t tempt anyone, that’s the Devil’s Job. LOL. YEAH REALLY. Don’t you know that the Word “God” in the old Testament is sometimes and usually rendered “Elohim” “gods” but the religious experts wanted to hid the facts of the first two chapter of Genesis, so they replaced the word “gods” with God. Then they presented the false interpretation of Elohim being “gods as the Holy Trinity. Which it never was. Because I looked up the history of the Word Elohim, it was never originally part of the Hebrew language. Originally the Hebrew word for God was “Yahweh” and every time the Bible is Speaking of the true God of the Universe it is always rendered as “Yahwey” But the words of the BIBLE was altered by Evil men that want us to worship devils, unwittingly. I know this because the real orginal usage of the Word, Elohim was Babylonian not Hebrew. It is used to describe their pantheon of gods. And that is its only use. Elohim is the group of Angels that were in the family of created beings that God was the head of, but had fallen later on. These are the beings that the Babylonians worshiped as their gods. Once you start seeing aht the words really mean you start to piece together the story of what really happened in Gensis. Wake-up Jim, because the Matrix has you. LOL. Oh, Jim, Jim there is so much that you don’t know. And I know it is hard. It almost destroyed me when I began to find out, just how deep it all goes. The Devil wants you to be enthralled to his lies so badly. And so much of us are. The church is his right now. He preaches from the pulpits every Sunday in every church. Read the parable of the mustard seed, it’s not just about faith. It shows how the Church on earth was prophesied to become this immense tree greater than any other tree, where the fowls of the air rest in its branches. FOWLS OF THE AIR, Jim. ARE DEMONS. The Church has fallen away from the true teachings of the Gospel. The Church IS the Great Falling away spoken of by The Apostle Paul. The Church is the Woman of Rev chapter 17. The church is EVIL! And in a few short years there will be no doubting it. WE are here Jim, this is the time of the End. And the Matrix has you. You say that we are not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together. But the Bible clearly says that in the time of End we are to Spiritually get out of Babylon. The Christian Church, America, and the Nation of Israel, all control the world together, from behind the scenes, because they are Babylon. The Word “God” In the Bible is from Babylon. Man Jim, How much plainer does it need to be? We have been lied to so subtly, and masterfully we don’t even know the Rat poison from the sugar anymore. Oh God, how wish people would wake-up! But you won’t. You won’t until it is too late to avoid the Great Tribulation. Dear Jesus, how I wish I were wrong about these things. But I’m not. You’ll see, in just a few more years you’ll all see. And then I’ll weep and mourn like I never have before. I’ll be watching from above and even there I’ll weep. Because for the space of half an hour, which is the last half the tribulation there will be silence in heaven, because everyone up there will be taking shifts quietly weeping and praying for what is happening on the earth.
David Weiser on Oct 15, 2008
David, if I didn't sense or know God is speaking to me to converse with you, I would give up, like you sorta said a couple of posts before. You basically said one of us would give up. I am sorry really sorry that you are like the man born blind. God removed scales or mud or whatever you want to call it after 40 years of crap from satan. I am not tormented anymore, period! I know the truth, speak the truth, and may get tired of trying to convince you of what is truly true. God though will not give up on you, unless you have hardened your heart as Pharaoh did. You see you fill up your paragraphs with way too many BIG words that almost want to fly over my head, but I know you even better than you know yourself. Neither of us have anybody attaching to what we are conversing about and I would truly wonder how many people would actually believe some of what you say here. I KNOW THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS WOULD HOLD TO WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DO SO WISELY. I know you are a good person with a good heart, but your doctrine is lacking in truth and clarity. Go ahead and believe what you may, but I won't. You sounded like in your last paragraph, that you believe in what Christians believe, but you have constantly tried to convey that you aren't one. Well, are you a Christian, or aren't you??? God Bless and good night, jim c.
jim c. on Oct 15, 2008
now we have a ridiculous block of some sorts that doesn't allow everything to be put here, I think David, God gives us a choice everyday, to live for Him, or something else, yes he has put before us what you want to continually refer to as evil - but in actuality he puts before us blessings and curses, get real, quit saying I am not, and give your life to Jesus, choosing His Blessings if you don't watch this, i have wasted all of my time sharing with you, and if you don't have more positive words to speak, refrain from posting messages to me, God bless, jim c. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OtMBvIsgVzI
jim c. on Oct 16, 2008
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n-8SYA6rfbs EVER HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS
jim c. on Oct 16, 2008
Dear Jim, if you are still reading any of this. I put a new movie on my page, you really need to see it. It's about the two witnesses of Rev 11. I hope you check it out. Peace, in Christ. Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 16, 2008
I posted my previous post before I realized that you responded. You want to know if I am Christian? When I already told you what I was? You people do that sort of thing all the time. It’s narrowly defined by you and only you or those who think like you. It’s a set-up by you. That you make the rules and that you can alter those rules as to what is what as you see fit. As if the Letter A is the alphabet but letters B through Z are not. And then say “See, I was right all the time, your not “A” so you’re not in the alphabet. What in the world does being called a Christian got to do with my faith? What did believers in Jesus call themselves before the Word “Christian” came into existence? It is trying the way you keep implying that English words and titles are the only acceptable words of faith. You are locked in your brain about it. And then say I use to many big words? Didn’t you imply that you worked as some kind of educator. An educator saying that I am too smart for him? That’s rich Jim and oh so terribly sad. My message is lacking in truth and Christian Charity? You say this like all hypocrites do. Make a claim then you don’t say how it is so. When I have done the opposite. Why do you pose emotional emptiness in place of substance. You are like the church that gives a homeless man a hug and a bible tract when he needs a meal, a shower, and a warm place to sleep. You are not being real again! Jim what did believers read or hear before the Bible came into existence. The Bible is only 400 years old! Scales before my eyes? HA! What about the pitch dark blackness you bumble around in? I tell you what God has shared with me for real. I am a man with real visions, dreams, hearing heavenly voices, angelic visitation, demonic battles, and healings. The things that happen to ME. Not what happened to someone else. The things that I experienced in MY life. What do you present? Emotional sentiments, whimpish assumptions of teachers that I could easily expose as fraudulent, and then you try and solicit some kind of psychological response from me with imagery from a song about a kid that is in an emotional quandary over her parents? Jim I am not that Kid! I don’t have any emotional links to saddened past that I never experienced. I fought my battles and still kept trucking, dude! What do you expect from me? Or you like the Churchy brain dead idiots that say things like “Don’t think about it, just believe”? Are you SERIOUS? You are afraid Jim. Aren’t you? You don’t want to wake up and smell the BS of religion. You want to wrap yourself up in the cocoons of their sweet lies. Because Jim, as the deadly poisons of it work through you, it lulls you to an euphoric sleepy stupor. And oh, it’s so nice, sooooo . . . . . . . . niiiiicccee to sleep the sleep of the undead. Isn’t Jim? And you want me there with you.
David Weiser on Oct 16, 2008
This is exactly why Bill made his movie, The average religious person is totally incapable of rational thought. They are brainwashed by the ones above them and can't keep the beliefs of their (human)Master to themselves. Because some man, said that some man said, that some man said, that God said such and such and that is just good enough for them. "So, let's Kill some unbelievers. And send them to Hell faster." I personally believe that if we didn't have laws against Murder that at least 90 percent of Christians in the World would try and murder everyone else. Just because they wouldn't believe the things that the Christians say. The Inquisition anyone? Church people and all other religious people of all other faiths don't want to be bothered with studying the history of their own faiths and find out if what their slave masters say is true or not. They would much rather have permission from their leaders to kill their opposers just to shut them up. God Bless you, Bill Maher at least, for this one thing. Proving how utterly stupid the religious are. Which isn't really that hard to do.
David Weiser on Oct 16, 2008
David is not Wiser Got does not talk. There is no heaven or hell. If there is, please tell me where. This thing about Christians can only be "saved" is nuts. When you die, you decompose. Wait a while and you will be bones only and maybe some hair. You say people have "souls." Oh yeah, what is it made of, similar to an implant in a breast? Ok, you say it is invisible. How come you can't see it. Does it burn if it is Jewish? Jesus Christ was born a Jew and died a Jew. The Bible was written by man. The Universe was created fifteen billion years ago and life began about four and a half billion years ago. I am open to comment.
Dan Kelly on Oct 16, 2008
You'll like this one. How many eyes does a squirel have? How many ears? How many limbs? How many nostrils? How many toe nails? Should I say more? I asked a member of the Knights of Columbus once while discussing religion. I asked him where do squirrels go? He said: "Squirrel Heaven." No one can snser this. If there is a sould where do you draw the line between the haves and tha have nots? During the time line of human development who is the first person to have a soul and the last one that doesn't? It's a fantasy, Rip van Winkle.
Dan Kelly on Oct 16, 2008
Hello, Dan. I don’t understand the childish slight on my name, though. When I have never been anything but nice to you. It’s not even a very good one. But Good to hear from you again, anyway. My conversation with Jim, if you could call it that, was about Religion. Religion is not the same as a personal belief in God, a lot of people get it confused. Religion is an effort on the part of the believer to get a god to notice their contributions to a group effort and then expect that god to reward the acts of devotion and mutual bondings of that group. A practice I completely abhor. Because today the religious of the world have completely sacrificed personal faith and personal accountability and their own common sense, for that matter, all for a group agreement and acceptance to be led by a person or persons who will remove the burdens of accountability from them. It is actually faith in the group rather than their god or any idea of a god, when they say otherwise. It is very cowardly, in my opinon because individually they have no courage at all, to explain, or rationally discuss the attributes of their beliefs, or anything outside of that belief. They are in effect completely and mentally on auto-pilot. I am not one of those people. If you want to discuss that you believe that God does not existence you might find me and someone like Jim weirdly on the same side of that issue. I know, or believe, if you will that God does in fact exist because He has spoken to me on many occasions. If you like, you can assume that I am delusional about that, however it does not detract from the fact that it was an actual experience, delusional or otherwise, unlike Jim, I am being real about it. Got does not talk? Why do you believe that? Because He never talked to you. Well I know a guy name Steve that never talked to you. I guess that he means he never talked to anyone else? There is no heaven or hell? You see that is a religious error that you are trying to get me to defend. There is a heaven it is the sky, the solar system, and the galaxies of outer-space. I’ll bet you expected me to say something like white clouds and harps and pearly gates and things. LOL Hell is what I said earlier. The grave, death, non-existence, Nothingness. It is not fire and burning forever, that is religious error. This thing about Christians can only be "saved" is nuts? You are absolutely right. You get a prize. By definition the soul is the entity that keeps your body living. If I have to say what exactly for the lack of a better answer I would have to say the soul is a type of life-energy. But people have a mind and a spirit too. The mind is our capacity to process information into thoughts and ideas, the spirit is your personality. You asked “Ok, you say it (the soul) is invisible. How come you can't see it.” I never said it was anything until now, but Yes I believe it is invisible. But just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. Example: What does wind look like? I don’t know because I can’t see it. But it is there, because I can feel it. Does it burn if it is Jewish? Jesus Christ was born a Jew and died a Jew. Dan, that question makes no sense to me, Sorry man. You said, "The Bible was written by man." Yes it was, the first English Bible was written about 400 years ago, the words were altered on Command of the King so that He could legaly get a divorce from his wife without sinning. So he changed what the sin was in the book. More or less. The very first Bible was about 200 years or so before that but written in Latin and only the church elders were allowed to read it. Before there was any Bible at all Church Elders had hand-written copies of copies of various letters that may or may not have been written by the followers of Jesus' orginal twelve Apostles, not the Apostles themselves mind you, but their follwers. At best someone who never even heard Jesus preach, but heard someone else preach that he had heard Jesus preach. Anyway, the oldest copies are about 200 years after Jesus walked the earth. You said. “The Universe was created fifteen billion years ago and life began about four and a half billion years ago. I am open to comment.” I would have to agree with you on that. Science is very convincing on that topic. You asked, “How many eyes does a squirel have? How many ears? How many limbs? How many nostrils? How many toe nails? Should I say more? I asked a member of the Knights of Columbus once while discussing religion. I asked him where do squirrels go? He said: ‘Squirrel Heaven.’ ” I don’t understand the significance of those questions. Animals die just like we do. They don’t go anywhere. Just like we don’t. The religious error is that we go to heaven immediately after we die. We don’t. We stay in the ground until, as the Real Scriptures Teach, When God Resurrects us all. My grandfather died in 1988. He was cremated and his ashes scattered. And he is still scattered ashes today. His soul, which is just his life-energy was rendered inert when he died, and it is still inert right now. You asked “If there is a soul where do you draw the line between the haves and the have nots?” There is no difference between them, if I understand the question right. It sounds like your asking a spiritual question. Your last question was confusing and didn’t sound like a question all that much anyway. Have a good night, Dan Dave
David Weiser on Oct 16, 2008
this is #69 above, what you believe will determine your eternal dwelling place, Love, jim c. #69 commentor has contributed a lengthy treatise worth considering. I will not be so kind, however. Romans 1:18-22 18 God's anger is shown from heaven against all the evil and wrong things people do. By their own evil lives they hide the truth.19 God shows his anger because some knowledge of him has been made clear to them. Yes, God has shown himself to them.20 There are things about him that people cannot see—his eternal power and all the things that make him God. But since the beginning of the world those things have been easy to understand by what God has made. So people have no excuse for the bad things they do.21 They knew God, but they did not give glory to God or thank him. Their thinking became useless. Their foolish minds were filled with darkness.22 They said they were wise, but they became fools.
jim c. on Oct 16, 2008
Still there Jim? I hear you sleeping in your posts. You snore a lot. Typical auto-pilot mentality, Jim. You don’t throw a Bible verse out there and leave it hanging. Discuss it and tell us what it means. You see, Jim that is faith. That is discussing what you believe and why. Anything is else is displaying your idiocy and willingness to led around like a slave to anyone that flatters you. Before I continue, let me explain something of my education, you said on least one post that are some kind of teacher, I think you lied about that and I also think that it was really you posing as your son, You probably don't even have one. No matter. I am a high school drop out. I don’t have an education, but I am more learned and articulate than you, a self proclaimed teacher, appear to be. I do however have a 138 IQ. (Gifted still about 20 points from genius, though) These test are all over the internet, take one, if you get higher than a 95, I’ll be very surprised. All the stuff I learned I picked up over the years. I am self educated, and I read everything. Now as to your latest snore . . . errr . . . bore . . . I mean post. . . . Romans 18 was where Paul was Preaching to unconverted Romans who were worshiping multiple pagan gods and like your ilk today they never even really believed in those gods, do some research, they just did it because it was the socially acceptable thing, So, they were ready for something real, anyway. Romans 1:18 1st sentence. God’s anger. Is not anger. It’s correction. 2nd sentence is just fine the way it is, but it was worded with contempt for effect. When originally it wasn’t. 3rd sentence. Is not even in the Bible. But the writer of that post changed the words “the things made by God” to “God Himself” which is a SIN, by the way. Changing the words and not saying that you did, to explain a point. 4th sentence is so altered that I don’t where to start. 5th sentence is altered a great deal too but not as bad as the previous one. You posted “They knew God, but they did not give glory to God or thank him.” It is supposed to be in the Original context. When their “Ancestors” knew God, but they “taught” their descendants not to glorify Him as the true God, but as just another “Elohim” a created being. 6th sentence is supposed to be their “thoughts about God” but the passage only says thinking or thoughts. 7th sentence is supposed to be “Their foolish ideas” not “their foolish minds” 8th sentence is supposed to be “Your ancestors were wise about me (God) but taught you to be foolish about me )God) instead. See how the scribes of Europe who altered the words ever so slightly changed the entire outcome of the passage? Of course I could never do this in a church, I would be thrown out, even though it’s true, I would be Branded a heretic, less than 300 years ago I would have been murdered by them for it. But they would have murdered me out of LOVE for me, so that would have made it ok, at lest for them. Religion is wonderful you get to hate, malign, and judge, and condemn people to Hell as much as you want and if you live in a place that the law allows it, you can even kill, because someone else said that God said it was okay, just this once. But it never is just this once, is it, Jim? But luckily we live in a place where there is law against it. But you can murder me in your heart, and you get do it over and over and over. OHHH BOY! That’s fun for you.
David Weiser on Oct 17, 2008
Dave, will you please accept my apology? No excuse except poor judgement and I try to be funny. I would like to use the pen name of Dan Weisman. Have you heard the latest poll? Plumbers and drunks are 85% McCain, 10% Obama and 5% undecided!
Dan Kelly on Oct 17, 2008
Dave, I am sure you are a decent person. I read your e-mail. Thank you. If I wanted to cohesively communicate, I should print out the blog and reference while I share. Back to the soul. Yes, you can feel the wind but can you feel the soul? Again the "Creator" (or Energy, where I am leaning) preceded first life (asexual cells.) Energy "talks." You can hear and feel the wind. You can see a volcano erupting. You can watch the tides change. There is a litany. If Whatever caused creation of our universe (which I understand there may be more and that this would have to expand my thought prcess except for the fact that Energy, once again, comes to mind,) There is nothing scientific about a soul. Ask any doctor or surgeon or more appropriately a mortician. My point is that if there was a "God" involved, then nothing talked before life. Nature "talked," but no mouths existed at creation.
Dan Kelly on Oct 17, 2008
Dan, Hello. I accept your apology, but there is really no need, I assumed you were just kidding anyway. Oh man, Joe the plumber, what a hoot. McCain thinks This Joe is the Average American? A plumber that makes 250,000 dollars per year. McCain is living in a dream world. I wouldn’t be surprised if they steal this election from Obama, using some of this Acorn voter-registration scandal bull that there trying to link him too. We live in a sad time, my Friend. You can’t trust anything in this world anymore. It seems like it might be best to stay at home and be self-educated and tell everyone else to shutup unless you ask for their opinions. Oh. Well, I am an old man now, I earned my right to gripe and grumble. LOL. Anyway back to the other topic, you brought up. I don’t know if you can feel a soul or not. I assume that just because your thinking breathing and being alive that it is self-evident. Science has had a big problem with removing the idea that an intelligence of some sorts had to be involved in the creation of life, and reality in general because, even the smallest particles of matter are just simply too expertly designed and efficiently functioning as units and then together as entire systems to be a random-by-chance-occurrence. In fact with all the data thus far, and we are just beginning to understand theoretical and quantum physics, it literally takes more faith not believe that everything was an intelligent deliberate act of some sort of super-advanced-being or beings. As I said earlier, that even Bill Maher’s favorite atheist scientist admitted that he believed, based on the current data, that everything was created buy an intelligent designer. But he refused to say if it was God. But that was good enough for me. He really had to be grilled just to get that much out of him. And yes I would agree, there is nothing scientific about a soul. But look at the sciences we have today. They came out of the philosophies of Ancient Greece. If you ever read up on any of them, You would find that they are little more than superstitions and some were just plain nuts and wrong. But they didn’t know any better and just did the best that they could. Only one Philosophy was absolutely perfect from its origins and that was math when the learned men of Ancient Greece began to apply this perfect language and systems of numbers with their other philosophies, the superstition began to slowly fall away and true sciences began to come about. Unfortunately Religion came and foolishly branded the philosophies as heresy, and I must admit, some of them were pretty far out there and I would have been hard pressed to find a degree of tolerance for them myself. So sadly we had about a thousand years of scientific darkness from about 500 AD - 1500 AD. So horribly unfortunate was this that China began to surpass Europe in advancement and the Arabic/Muslim world too, that’s how they were able to kick Europe’s backside for most of the Crusades they had advanced their technology and sciences while Europe stagnated for 1,000 years. Ironically if it weren’t for the outright blind faith fanaticism that the Papal Churches instilled in their subjects we would likely be all practicing Muslims today. But I digress, the point I was trying to make is that our sciences are in the stone age still, today. I believe that if things could continue and we remain as we are as a race perhaps in a few more centuries we could detect, measure, and scientifically define such things as a soul. But for now we are still primitives in the sciences and the same people are still holding us back, Religious closed mind people with political clout. Especially in areas of medicine. Before Creation and trying to ponder if God or “Energy” as you refer to Him talked. Have you ever read up on anything that Einstein presented in his unified field theory, from there you can get into string theory and super string theory, it’s all very interesting stuff. Once one understands the fundamental’s of Space-time. The possibility of a Talking, Intelligent Entity, From Higher dimensions of Space and Time doesn’t seem all that much of a stretch of the imagination. Well Dan, I enjoyed talking with you and hope to converse some more. Have a good night. Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 17, 2008
Dave, Very thoughtful. I am not sure how to respond. You made me think. My first reaction was that anything before the beginning of time, is not understandable. I do not believe in faith. I am well aware that it keeps most people going. When Jesus Christ was asked if he was King of the Jews, he returned: "It is you that say that I am." Only other news is that there are about 1,719,000 "Joes" in America.
Dan Kelly on Oct 18, 2008
It's all good, Dan. And thank you. You seem fairly bright yourself. Faith is by the defined as simply "the substance of things hoped for." Or more simply the "act of hoping for something to be so." Most people think that faith is being certain of something. No. That is another religious error. (Sigh) and there are so many. If I say to you, "Well, Dan I hope it rains tonight." I am really saying that I have faith that it will. When in reality it may or may not. Anything other than that is saying that you know one way or the other. Have you ever noticed how people use words and they have no idea why they use the words they do? They assume that they know the meanings of those words but they don't really. They are instead using a derived form of slowly evolving slang. Words and expressions are interesting things, at lest they are to me. So, what I really think you meant to convey, (not really trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to understand you little better) is that you don't believe in being certain about God and such. But I really do think you have faith (hope) that certain things, that you personally like and think might be so, are true. But like you some of the things you say make me think too. And I really like that. I have to think on the Jesus comment a bit though. Anyways, Later for now, Keep it real, Buddy. Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 18, 2008
Troube is I don't have hope for anything. Since I know now that there is no afterlife, what it there to hope for other than death? When I imagine outside of the Universe, I see total darkness.
Dan Kelly on Oct 18, 2008
Hello, Dan, I just got back from the movies tonight. I really don't know what to say to that. Are asking me to give you evidence that there is something after death? I mean, I have evidence that is acceptable to me, because I lived my past experiences. I know that there is something after death, I know Heaven is real because I’ve seen it. There is more to it, than sky and outer space. I know that that is unacceptable to most people so I usually leave at such a level as outer space, because that is part of Heaven. Death is only a power over us because we are in temporal state of existence. That is as best as I can represent it mathematically as The universe = U and so we live in U to the fourth degree. Mathematics is proven to be absolutely perfect and demonstrates in formulae that there are infinite degrees beyond the four we obviously know. Distance, area, volume, and time. Death rules us because time does, you remove the power that time has over us and we never have to experience death of any kind accidental or otherwise. Avoiding accidents, never growing old, halting the advance of sickness. In a fifth demionsal state we would have as much control over time as we do over moving through space becuase of time. All those things require time to affect us. So since we know that there is a higher dimension and dimensions beyond that and that idea is proven mathematically to a part of reality, although as fourth dimensional beings we are unable to perceive them in a practle way. Yet it as just as much real as the knowledge that the world was proven to be round by the ancient Greeks using their Math, even though they had no practical way to perceive it with their eyes, as we can today, using aircraft and satellites to confirm what our ancestor already proved to themselves mathematically. So the state of death is really only a mater of dimensional perception and once we cross over we will become fifth dimensional beings at the very lest. I do not encourage dying however, because the fourth dimensional state we live in still has its value for our experiences. Seeking a way to cheat the laws of mathematical physics never work anyway. I’m sorry but other than that I can only offer you Spiritual advice, which you seem to have said that you likely would not accept. But Trust me, if you only could, Jesus is real and He really is God and He cares about you. He is in control of everything. He saved everyone from Death. If you want to go there in the conversation then that is up to you. If not, we can keep it at the Flesh and bones earthly level of reality. I cool either way. “Nothing is ever as bad as it seems.” Jesus Christ speaking to David Weiser, while he was Homeless for a time in June, 1988. Have a good night, Dan, and Jim if you are still around, I only wish the best for you too. It’s too bad we can’t seem to have a conversation. Good night all, I am going to eat my late dinner now, watch a little, TV and then go to Bed. See ya, Dave.
David Weiser on Oct 18, 2008
Hey, David. I am sorry but I can't buy any of that. It's OK. Like my father used to say: "everybody to their own taste the lady said as she kissed the cow. My mother used to say never discuss politics or religion. All these thoughts have me into the depth of darkness, i.e., beyond the universe.
Dan Kelly on Oct 19, 2008
That's too bad. I'll leave you to it then. Email me at Dweiser@kc.rr.com if you want to talk about anything else.
David Weiser on Oct 20, 2008
I was kicked out of church for charging my priest in college. He ended up telling me that I was right, none of this hocus pocus shit exitsts,.... it's just there for the idiots who can't figure out science, and for people who NEED GOD to get bye... I laughed my ass off and thanked him for finally coming clean as I called him a liar on my way out. Surprisingly he didn't yell back,..... "YOU ARE RUINING IT FOR THE CHILDREN."
Cheri on Oct 20, 2008
Cheri, That's an amazing story. I grew up with priests and nuns. Over the last ten years or so I have discarded almost everythihng. Is religion a crutch? I believe so. Are there social benefits from going to church? I believe so. I must be too deep into my mind because I have been thinking outside the universe. All I see is darkness and empty space. If the planets seem to be spherical, is the universe spherical as well?
Dan Kelly on Oct 20, 2008
This movie was so retarded! Produced by a bunch of negative atheists hoping they are right in the end...live it up tards!
Aaron on Oct 24, 2008
HI, I didn't read the above,sorry. I have questions to BILL Mahier. If there is no god as you believe , why are you so weak if you get sick , why don't you cure yourself ,why can't you stop death so you will live forever. i will not answar that , you are so smart you can figuer it. My second question why are we all alike and why are we here?. maybe because there is a life after death also why there is a life after death , so every one get a reward of he/she was doing in life.Got don't need you he got bilions bilions of people you the one need got and find the way to know him and what he want from you to do before time run and find yourself in the grave alone facing your work at life , and start saying i wish god bring me back a life to do what he want me to do , but it will be so late because any one got his one and only one chance.That what i want to say. If you still want to stay like what you are now , it is ok ,it is your choice, and that what god want to do because he is the only one show his path to the one he choose , and those who are going to HAVEN.Please stay away from hurt other people feeling . please forward this email to him,
sammmaa on Nov 5, 2008
Sammmaa, maybe you should read a first grade science book. There is no evidence of any god anywhere. Maybe if you read said book your could answer some of your own questions.
Jefhart on Nov 6, 2008
Dear Sam, I am Bill Maher's surrogate. The first part of your blog does not make sense to me. I am not God and yes, I get sick like everyone else. I may even get cancer some day. It is all chance. We are all alike because hiumans have evolved together. Our brains may be unique, but then I'v never seen two squirrells that think alike. There is no life after death. I have yet to have someone come back and tell me about it. When I was a kid, heaven was in the sky. Thunder was the angels bowling. Hell was incessant fire below us (almost all the way down to China!) When I die, bury me. Hang my balls on a cherry tree. When they're ripe, take a bite, but don't blame me if you die that night! Seriously, when we die, our flesh and organs decompose. Our bones will last forever and maybe our hair. Ever see a well wrapped mummy? You can keep your dna unless you get cremated. Have you heard that they have discovered Jesus' bones in Golgatha? Some Christian college student on an archaelogical dig. I guess he never left. This should blow alot of theories! Thank you again Sammmaa, I will forward your blog to Bill.
Dan Kelly on Nov 6, 2008
There is no purpose whatsoever for being here except for staying alive, if you so choose. Maybe we are here for happiness? Now accepting comments.
Dan Kelly on Nov 6, 2008
Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall the night the Holy Spirit told Joseph to fuck Mary?
Dan Kelly on Nov 6, 2008
I wish this blog would pick up some action. The last blog before Sammmaa was thirteen days before hers.
Dan Kelly on Nov 6, 2008
It's wore out Dan, Everybody pretty much is staying in their own thoughts about this, although you are wrong about the finding Jesus' bones, the evidence has been disputed and proven untrustworthy. Jesus' family tomb would have been in the city of Nazareth not Jerusalem. According to the Gospel accounts Jesus was bureid in Jerusalm as a condemned criminal, had he been ad normal mortal man and lived a full mortal life and not been put to death as the story describes, then he would have been buried with his family in Nazareth not Jerusalem. The discoverd tomb that you are describing is of another family with similar names. Jesus, Mary, Jospeh were all common names lots of people had the same names like they do today. The discoverer of the Tomb is just another desperate unbeleiver trying to foolishly disprove the exsistence of God, so that he can show that he nd the rest of us has no one to answer to but ourselves. It's a really weak discovery. Dave.
David Weiser on Nov 22, 2008
The movie is interesting but juvenile. What can you expect from a comic and the creator of Borat? Maybe Maher needs the money and is just making something that will sell but destruction of what sustains folks without replacing it with something better is not a real contribution. Try to imagine (seriously over many decades) what the world would be like without any religion, without any of the contributions made by religions. THere are answers to the dilemmas he poses but you have to think a bit. I predict a time will come when folks return to their religious roots despite his ridicule because there is more to a religion than just the superficial entertainment.
canbyte on Jun 26, 2009
you're right, there is more, its called money! *rolls eyes*
didbyte on Aug 28, 2009
In the movie "Religulous" Bill Maher asks "Why doesn't God just obliterate the Devil therefor getting rid of evil?" The answer is this, if God were to obliterate Satan many people believe it or not would think that God couldn't handle all the trouble Satan was causing when in fact God could handle anything. So by showing that He could handle anything he will let Satan loose on the earth just so that he could show people like Bill Maher that He will always be stronger, greater, and forevermore powerful.
Isaiah on Jan 17, 2011
This country is filled with Evangelical Christians. In fact, unless you say you are a church-going, Bible-thumping, born-again Christian, you don't have a "prayer" seeking a political career. I just want to thank you on speaking out on a subject that many of us are afraid to broach. These religious nut-jobs will eventually get their wish and destroy this beautiful world "in the name of God." We often hear the phrase "in the name of God" and also "God wills it", but wasn't it one of the commandments "do not take the Lord's name in vain." Well, they must have missed that one. Anyway, back to the politicians (and heads of Corporations since they are practically one and same), I cannot find it anywhere in the Bible that you are able to take from the poor and give to the rich. That you have his blessing to pollute, steal (retirement and homes). The words I found said, "you shall not covet your neighbor's (nations?) wife, ox, nor anything belonging to your neighbor (oil?). When God said, "go, be fruitful and multiply," now that is one that should be readdressed, but no. We have all these polygamous groups where the women pop out a child ever year. I really don't care what they do personally, but that should be against the law having that many children. When someone comes out and say that we need to reduce the population, all hell breaks out. All, I have to say is God help us from the Bible-thumpers!
Csgannon on Feb 19, 2011
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