TORONTO 2008

Toronto Review: Kevin Smith's Zack and Miri Make a Porno

by
September 9, 2008

Zack and Miri Make a Porno Review

To say I enjoyed Zack and Miri Make a Porno would be inaccurate. I loved it, every last second, right down to the mushy story about love and relationships that Kevin Smith gets to in the end. It's hilarious, it's saturated with sex, and it's charming, too. To be honest, I think Kevin Smith has actually taken a gigantic step forward, away from his previous films like Clerks and Dogma, and ventured into new comedic territory that used to only be reserved for Judd Apatow. I thought Seth Rogen might not be able to keep up his consistently strong comedic performances, but he's outdone himself and even topped Pineapple Express this time. Zack and Miri isn't exactly as reflective as Clerks II, but it's definitely sweeter.

If you haven't figured out what the film is about simply from the title, then I don't think I should be explaining it to you anyway. Zack (Seth Rogen) and Miri (Elizabeth Banks) are lifelong best friends who have never been anything more than just that. The two have been roommates for years but haven't really progressed in life, so when they run out of money for water and electricity, they decide to shoot a porno together in order to make some quick cash. Borrowing funds from a fellow co-worker (Craig Robinson), the two scoop up other wanna-be pornstars and get down-n-dirty. But as anyone might expect, for these two friends, fucking is more than just a way to make money. Remarkably, Rogen and Banks have perfect chemistry and feel like true life-long friends captured on camera.

Zack and Miri Make a Porno is easily one of the best comedies I've seen in a long-time. Thanks to Kevin Smith, it's so easy to get into and so easy to laugh at, making it one of the lest challenging films to simply sit back and enjoy, which is a delight here in Toronto. I don't care that Elizabeth Banks never showed her tits because she's a respectable actor or that we otherwise literally got a full on Jason Mewes-on-Katie Morgan porno, because I was able to simply enjoy the enduring story that Smith put together himself. And I don't care that Seth Rogen doesn't become a hit porno producer in the end (don't worry it's not a spoiler) because the story told within this 102 minutes was thoroughly entertaining anyway.

I'm anxious to see Zack and Miri again, but not for the typical reasons. I think there is something new to gain every time and I want to see how much I missed by laughing so much. Kevin Smith's brilliance shines through yet again in Zack and Miri and Rogen and Banks, in addition to a hilarious ensemble lead by Craig Robinson, pull off wonderfully amusing performances. Zack and Miri is a comedy that will not even come close to letting anyone down. Instead, it's an instant hit that has so much more to offer than just cheap laughs.

Toronto Rating: 9 out of 10

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  • D-9
    Sounds GREAT! ( all except the Rogen parts)
  • Darrin
    i hope this movie makes more than dark knight
  • Keith
    I skipped to the end to see the rating you gave it, sorry. I don't want to hype this movie at all (for myself), but I'm glad to see you like it Alex. and Darrin...why?
  • http://www.youtube.com/AllmightyKeim AllmightyKeim
    LOL that would rock to have a Kevin Smith movie make that much money. That would put him in history. Oh that would be great. Just for that I am seeing the movie 5 times a day for a month to help Kevin reach that goal.
  • avoidz
    Rogen seems to be in every other movie lately. Rogen-fatigue is setting in, fast...
  • Darrin
    I saw this film and there was no flaws in it, to me this was perfectly done, but for dark knight that had one flaw. I dont mind that films have little flaws but dark knight had a big one that turned me off completely, and not even alex would mention it in the review. The scene where rachel and batman fall off a 50 storey building and batman didn't do anything but hold on to rachel and they just land on top of a car safely. THATS BULLSHIT. Please defend the truth with the elements of batman's costume. I would give dark knight a 9 out of 10. But for zack and miri a perfect 10.
  • taurinh24
    @number 6 you know, i thought about that too, but here is thing, he also falls about 20 feet at the end and is severely hurt, lol. I know, i know its a comic, but still...makes you wonder? Not sure if i will see this in the theater, although i do love kevin smith, but if its better than clerks 2, im in! i loved clerks 2!!!
  • terces7
    @number 6 and 7 I had difficulty with Batman's fall with Rachel from that building as well, but after watching The Dark Knight a fair number of times, I think I have an answer. As Batman and Rachel are falling, there is quite a bit of resistance from Batman's cape, which could have helped to slow down the fall. Also, if you listen closely, you can hear a kind of "whoosh" from the cape right before they land on the car, which could have slowed them down significantly enough to save them. It's enough for me to justify the scene, but it still could have been done better.
  • http://www.myspace.com/kevjohnphotography kevjohn
    Quick question: Is there anyone else out there besides me who doesn't care much for Kevin Smith's work? From Clerks on through to Clerks II, the guy hasn't impressed me one bit. I could be the only one though. #6 - I was wondering that too about that TDK scene. On my second viewing, however, I saw that Bats had actually deployed his cape/chute thing that he's used since Batman Begins. That slowed them down enough (using superhero movie physics of course) to make the fall survivable. It's a very dark scene, and his black cape-chute against the night sky is very hard to see. But it's there, man, it's there.
  • Peloquin
    How did a post about Zac and Miri make a porno turn into another Dark Knight discussion? It's crazy the effect that film has had on people who read this site and makes me think that there's no way the third one will top TDK ... people already have hyped it up so much and there's not even a script yet. (This did make me go back and check that scene out though so I guess I'm just as obsessed as most)
  • http://www.entertainmenttodayandbeyond.com entertainmenttodayandbeyond.com
    Personally, I was disappointed with Pineapple Express as the script was weak and the film wasn't funny enough. I hope Zack and Miri delivers!
  • Tim "Cloverfield"
    #9 Could not agree with you more, Great job! And # 5 You are right as well. Totally over Rogen and the Green Hornet situation has turned me off totally from him, and the fact the GB3 rumor is abounding, well...it is a sad day. Not a big Kervin Smith fan as well. Not at all. Clerks was funny for about 20 minutes. Bravo to you guys as well explaining the "fall" in DK. About the 3rd time finally I had put it all in frame. The IMAX kinda helped see this a little more clearly. Great job guys!
  • Kail
    This movie will be seen by people in a movie theater
  • Drake
    this film looks amazing. As for the other discussion with dark knight, well i saw the film 3 times, that cape did not open, sry guys. That scen threw me off as well but with great luck heath ledger brought me back into the action.
  • L
    who cares about this? the is a porno is not
  • L
    about the tdk scene. it was done just fine. the movie was so good that i framed the ticket
  • John
    ^ weirdo.
  • Tim1974
    Another tiresome, redundant use of male frontal nudity. The double standard against men continues. I hope that young men will soon realize that they are being had and refuse to see shows that do not include an equal amount of female frontal nudity. It is about respect and equality.
  • Carl
    I just saw the movie tonight in an advance screening, and I already want to see it again. Hilariously delightful with the perfect amount of vulgarity (as in lots, but not taking anything away from the plot). Seth Rogen is better than this IMO than Superbad, Elizabeth Banks just sparkles, Justin Long actually makes a movie better, and Craig Robinson along with the rest of the cast makes this movie epic. If I had to pick out one person who was the weak link, it would be Kenny Hotz (even if the part was minuscule), but that is about it. @avoidz: if you avoidz you will regretz. @kevjohn: Get ready to be impressed. @Tim1974: It was balanced. If the nudity wasn't balanced, there was more female frontal nudity. Just the fact that the male nudity was hilarious made it stand out more. This is a movie that can be seen with a group of people or just a good friend. This movie is a 10 in my books, and one of the best romantic comedies I have ever seen (if you want to call it that, I would). Go see it Friday.
  • Tim1974
    Carl, There was no female frontal nudity in the movie. Did you see another show ?
  • Carl
    Tim1974, You and I may have different definitions according to frontal nudity for males and females. From what I recall, I know that there was full frontal nudity of a male and female (but in separate scenes). On the lesser side, there was a fair share of female nudity and "ball jokes." We may have seen different versions, but that would be interesting.
  • Tim1974
    Carl, Thanks. It appears we do have a different meaning of full frontal nudity. To mean it does not mean just showing a woman's pubic hair. It means showing her genital area(labia) just as men are showing their penises. If this was a just a one time thing it wouldn't matter. However, this matter of only showing the male and not the female has become a double standard. Why is it ok for men to show theirs but not women to show theirs ? Men would like to see as much of females as they do of us. And this show is such a farce. For example, Katie Morgan has had a show on HBO in which she hosted it completely nude. She shaves and thus her labia was visible. So if Mewes was asked to show his and did, then why didn't Katie show hers ? I am sure she would have if asked. So, when one gender is being continually exposed and not another, then that is a double standard and not exceptable. And brerasts and bare bottoms are not included in this discussion. I believe it is time for males to say that they have had enough of this bias and expect equal treatment. If they want to show the penis then show the labia as well. Interestingly, women who have longed for equality do not seem to have any interest in supporting men in this aspect. How disappointing. Men need to be respected as equals in this.
  • Carl
    Tim1974, I see. Never thought I would have an "Aha!" moment from pubic hair. I would say that the full frontal of Mewes wasn't needed. I guess it comes down to whatever you can get away with before it becomes NC-17, and it could be very easily be one sided.
  • kim
    tim, i do not know what movies you've been watching, but i've seen many. i could count on one hand, and probably only use two fingers or less to count the times i've seen a penis in a movie, excluding pornos. Women are constantly demeaned and belittled in the movie industry. they are seen for their parts and not as a whole. there is constantly needless female nudity, especially in the horror genre and in retarded comedies such as this. for you to be arguing that there should be more "labia" exposure is simply perposterous. If i have ever seen a penis in a movie, it was for a comical part of the movie, not for a seductive . that is the difference between the equality in male and female nudity. first off, women have more to show, they are used for the viewing pleasures of men and to make up for what is lacking in the plot of a movie. watch any R rated movie, you're guaranteed to see boobs in some totally useless scene. i am not concerned with your idea of equality because as i see it, women already have the extreme short side of the stick. if you are so upset by the lack of "labia" footage in commercial movies, why don't you head on down to the local adult movie store and get yourself a fix. better yet get yourself a girlfriend or even a hooker for that labia craving of yours!
  • Tim1974
    KIm. First off you need to do some research to realize that penises are everywhere in mainstream movies these days. Use the internet if you haven't really seen any movies with it. Male frontal nudity is also seen on many new HBO shows and even an abundance of Broadway plays. As for the fact that you think it is ok for male frontal nudity in movies because it is for comedy, well to me that is absolutely perposterous. Then if they are showing penises for a laugh then why not the labia ? It seems to me that you seem to think that equality is a man showing his penis but a woman does not. While you are doing your research check to see how many mainstream movies show a woman's pubic area and you will find but few. Then check to see how many show the labia and you will find it basically does not exisit. Why not ???? That is not equality, it is bias towards men.
  • Tim1974
    KIm. First off you need to do some research to realize what is in in mainstream movies these days. Use the internet if you haven't really seen any movies with it. Male frontal nudity is also seen on many new HBO shows and even an abundance of Broadway plays. As for the fact that you think it is ok for male frontal nudity in movies because it is for comedy, well to me that is absolutely perposterous. While you are doing your research check to see how many mainstream movies show a woman's pubic area and you will find but few. Then check to see how many show the labia and you will find it basically does not exisit. Why not ???? That is not equality, it is bias towards men.
  • Tim1974
    By the way KIm, while you are busy doing your research I'll try to figure out how to post comments correctly. lol
  • kim
    Tim, I can understand your concern with the inequality in nudity,because i myself find every day movies abundent in unessecary female nudity. this demeans the female body and self in so many ways. as a casual and semi-frequent movie watcher, and not a male full-frontal nudity researcher, i find it intersting that you seem so persistent in the abundance of penis sightings in non-porn movies. i do not have any compassion towards the lacking of "labia" in movies as i think that woman are still terribly exploited in everday commercial films. if you've never noticed, breasts are one of the most practical body parts on a female, their purpose is to feed an infant. human kind and the media have transformed them into a sexual deviant. a sexual medium for men to get excited to. what else could the frequent exposure female breasts and bums in commercial films be meant for? we all know that most heteral sexual men suffer from a medical problem known as dick-brain syndrom; that is, they think with their dicks... this exposure only helps to cripple the idea of social and general equality between men and women. i suggest you pipe down on your misogonistic rights until female respect and equality are seen and properly corrected. thanks, kim.
  • Tim1974
    Kim, In all due respect, your comments are very female indeed. Another attempt to hide the fact that men are the ones today being exploited with this constant exposure. I would have thought that women, who are suppose to want equality, would understand and agree that to be equal then men and women should be exposed the same. In fact, it is my belief that if both sexes had equal exposure then there wouldn't be such a fuss over these types of things. Neither women or men should feel uncomfortable about seeing movies and feeling that they are being exploited. My hopes are that both men and women would insist on equality nudity and then maybe we could appreciate each other and our concerns better. However, I find that women will not admit that there is a double standard and have no concern for men's equal rights. So, I wonder, are women only interested inequality when it benefits them ? It sure seems that way. As for me, until men are able to see as much of female genitals as women have been seeing of men, then I will continue to insist on equality and respect for men. I can only hope that young men will finally realize that they are being taken advantage of and refuse to see movies that do not provide an equal amount of female nudity.
  • kim
    Now that I think of it, I actually have done some research on movies with full frontal male nudity, as I had a similiar discussion with my boyfriend. I told him I was tired of watching movies with so much female nudity. What reasons would I have to voluntarily sit there with him while a ten minute scene goes by where all the focus is on a perfect, naked female body? I wanted to find movies where there was copious amounts of male nudity, including penis exposure to show him what it feels like to watch a movie and always have his girlfriend gawking at some hot naked guy. My results were all of a few movies. In addition, if there was any male nudity in the movie, there was 2 or 3 times that amount in female nudity. I do believe in equality between male and females, but I find myself jaded being a female. You lack the experience, you will never know what it is like to be a female in a world commanded and controlled by men. Before preaching your male equality nonsence, take time to open your eyes to the big picture. Check to see who is really being exploited; which gender is almost always the victim, or objectified to the master? This doesn't just concern movies, this is real life. Real life affects the movies. Most movie directors, movie writers and producers are men, does it not make sense that they would cater to men's visual desires? I think society these days is completely trashy and lacking in any decency or class. Take this fucking rediculous movie for example. Where are all the artistic geniuses? Where are is all the creativity? Movies like this are a sad reflection of a brainless population. There is little need for nudity in movies, all it does is serve serve to make up for lack of plot. Please, if you think there is such an issue with full frontal male nudity, enlighten me. What are these films called?
  • Tim1974
    Kim, First off the double standard against men in reference to male genital nudity is by no means nonsense. Maybe just another attempt by a female to try to avoid the the true facts. Second, I will list only a few of the movies that contain such male nudity. It is by no means the complete list. it also doesn't take into consideration HBO shows, etc. and plays. I know I have given you the ammuniation to prove to your boyfriend but I am surprised you want to show him up with the nudity. I agree with you in that if they are showing too many breasts and bottoms without any male nudity then it is best not to see it. I will also ask you to list 10 movies where they show female pubis hair and I press you to find even 5 that show the labia like they do the penis. As a female you do not know what this type od exposure is like. For example, have they shown a larger woman wrestling with a smaller woman with her labia in the other's face(ala Borat)? Have they shown a vagina being tattoed (ala jackass 2) ? Have they showed a woman bending over a bucket and urinatimg(ala HBO Oz) ? Is anyone trying to get a play on regular TV on PBS that features female frontal nudity(ala King Lear)? I can go on and on but this is just a sample. It has become very tiresome. Now when you find some shows that dispaly the labia compare it to my shorten list that exposes the penis and you will start to see why I have a problem with this double standard. As for your non movie point about females fighting discrimination I will agree that there does need to be more done in that area. However, I am only presenting the movie issue in reference to men. I could also give you a list of HBO shows and plays that contain male genitals only. Hopefully you will now see where I am coming from. Men need to fight this injustice and demand an equal amount of female frontal nudity in all shows. I wonder why women are not interested in equality ??? And I totally agree with your opinion of this movie. I also feel it is a sad reflection of a brainless population. Thanks for your time.
  • Tim1974
    Kim, Here is a shortened list. All expose male genitals but not all are just male nudity. Intimacy All the Real Girls Ghost Story The Loss of Sexual Innocence Dewey Cox Room w/ View Women in Love Friends and Lovers Summer Lovers Dreamers Get Rich or Die Trying American History X Angels and Insects Shadowboxer Indian Runner Both Jackass movies Rome Oz Bad Lieutenant The Piano Quills Eclipse something Dirty Harry 3 April Fools Baaadddaassss Amistad Schindler’s List 8.5 Women Sirens Young Adam Y tu mama tambien 9 songs Sex is Comedy Porky’s Porky’s 2 Intimacy The Brown Bunny Caligula Swimming Pool “My Mother” Sliver Dragonslayer Wide Sargasso Sea Kinsey 28 Days Later Trainspotting Life of Brian Pillow Book Velvet Goldmine The Hole Flirting American Gigolo Breathless Goodbye, Lenin The Experiment Blue Velvet Eurotrip Eastern Promises Wild Things 1900 Germinale Pulp Fiction Color of Night (Bruce Willis) Ricochet Wolfen Lie With Me Brittania Hospital Cat People Shortbus Some Girls Learning Curve Fisher King Art School Confidential Terminator L’Auberge Espagnole Black Book Anatomy of Hell Clockwork Orange Cook Thief Wife Lover The Idiots Ken Park Bully In the Realm of the Senses One Hour Photo The Last Woman Irreversible The Thieves Queen Margot Hidden Betty Blue Time to Leave Sex and Lucia Forgetting Sarah Marshall Super Troopers Club Dredd The Beach Girls Mrs. Hutchinson whatever Some Girls Head On k Sleepaway Camp Breaking the Waves Woodstock
  • Phil Lester
    Tim: I agree with you. I've noticed the same double standard in movies, TV shows, and plays. Showing a penis has become something so common that it's not even remarked on. Yet showing a vagina (labia) is still taboo. I don't know why, but it is extremely bothersome. I agree with you that the only way it will stop is for men to refuse to participate (and to stop supporting these movies, TV shows, and plays). If you think that women are going to take up arms to support equality, you're sorely mistaken. For the life of me, I can't understand why a penis is a big joke, but a vagina is X-rated. That said, we men have only ourselves to blame. Keep fighting the battle. I'm glad there is someone out there who sees things the same way.
  • Jeff
    Kim, Women like you and your one-sided sexist views are the reason I can't ever get behind feminist views. Too many of you are vindictive, complaining, vengeful, self centered, male bashing asses. The worst thing about you is that women seem to be incapable of thinking fairly and logically. I want to make it clear I am not talking about ALL women. There are plenty of women who are wonderful people and I am friends with many women. The ones who refuse to be fair are the ones I can't deal with anymore. Anyone with a brain can understand the difference between a chest, butt, and genitals. Women are turned on just as much by a well-defined male chest as men are turned on by nice tits. Men are shown FAR more often shirtless in all sorts of media from soap operas and magazines to movies and television shows. Men show much more nudity on non-premium paid cable shows such as Nip Tuck. In fact, I have never seen ANY female nudity on cable, but plenty from men. Vulgar references to male genitalia are abundant in movies and even allowed on shows such as Two and a Half Men and plenty of other network shows, but you NEVER, EVER hear any slang references of female genitalia. The reason is networks are afraid of the backlash from women's groups, and that is another double standard men have to endure. Men are demeaned and exploited just as much, it's just not talked about. Double standard! How about the Sex Toy parties and raunchy bachelorette parties women have. It's just always fun when women do that sort of stuff. You can go to a strip club and it's just women having a fun night out, but men are jerks and degrade women when we do it. Double standard! You want to talk about women being demeaned and exploited and being treated unfairly. You women have some nerve. What about men who have to pay alimony and child support well beyond what we should have to pay, yet women consistently get custody of the children, along with the house and the family vehicle. Why don't you women cry for equality when it comes to that. My friend was divorced, had to raise his 2 children 75% of the time by himself because his ex didn't want much to do with the kids, yet he was ordered by the court to pay her 1250.00 per month for child support plus 500.00 maintenance to her. Bullshit and another double standard we men face. Why are there so many womens only clubs and schools around, but whenever there is an all male club or school, such as West point or a golfing club, feminists try to break the doors down and claim it is sexist and discriminatory against women. Why is it so wrong for men to socialize in a male only setting. Or for boys to attend an all boy school without it being sexist, but women can have BAC for women and Curves and female only golf clubs, but not men. Another double standard! Why are female sports reporters aloud in mens locker rooms with fully naked athletes yet men are NOT allowed to be in female locker rooms while the female athletes are fully dressed. Another BULLSHIT double standard men deal with. And now genitalia is being constantly shown in movies, but only male genitals are allowed. Female genitals will get an NC-17, and thats where the double is, with the MPAA. Why? Because the MPAA is headed by a FEMALE! You obviously haven't been paying attention to HBO, Showtime and many movies that have rotinely shown male genitals, yet have never shown a PUSSY! Pubic hair, yes, a pussy, no! Oh, I forgot, according to you Kim, and many other illogical females, pubic hair is fully nude. Another double standard! So Kim, before you and other feminists keep complaining, there are plenty of injustices and double standards men face as well. So shut up already!
  • Alexander M.
    I just have one thing to say to Jeff, Kim and Tim1974. Men have invented electricity, the automobile, the telephone and all kinds of other technology. Men have built the roadways and telecommunication systems. Men are the ones who have fought and died for the Freedom of the United States of America so our women and children are able to live peacefully and safe here. Men were the ones who jumped off the Titanic and gave up their lives to save women and children. Men are the ones who would risk their life for their family if an intruder entered the home. For women to complain about not having equality is garbage. Men and women are different. Men should be masculine and we shouldn't apologize for it like it is something bad as the feminists would argue. Women should be feminine and embrace those qualities. It's what we love about each other. Sad that so many women try to act like men nowadays, and too many men act like women because masculinity and femininity is attacked by feminists. My point is gender wars are at an all-time high and it is taking a toll on relationships and families. There are far less marriages and more and more divorces. What you guys are arguing about creates those feelings of anger toward the sexes. The MPAA is the true problem here. If they would allow either complete nudity of both genders where it would be totally fair there wouldn't be problems like this. Instead they allow only male genitals to be shown and it creates tension. So the MPAA needs to allow everything or not. Stop with all this we will allow this, but not that stuff. Allow it all or set specific standards where there are no blurred lines. And I agree with Tim and Jeff about genitals in movies and on tv. If you allow male genitals then allow female genitals. By the way, movies like this are the dumbing down of American values. How many times is Apatow and Smith, among many other American writers, going to come up with this vulgar sex-crazed garbage over and over and over again. Make something different. I could write a movie with 200 vulgarities and graphic nudity. Is this what people want on a continuous basis. I mean once-in-awhile is great, but there has been so many movies like this that they are redundant and lose all its shock value and comedic affect.
  • kim
    Perhaps my one sided view is coming from my own personal experience. I have seen my fair share and variety of movies; I have seen an intimidating amount of female nudity, yet very little male genitalia. Throughout history the female body has always been exposed in art, day to day life, and now in film. I feel that naked breasts are far different than a shirtless man. Though both are nice to look at, there is a certain sense of nakedness about bare breasts, a different feeling than seeing a man's chest. A shirtless man is more of an everyday thing. You might see your neighbour mowing the lawn shirtless and think nothing of it, but yet if his wife or teenage daughter did the same thing it would be a totally different story. Women have always had the role of the seductress, and to me, it’s the only reason there is female nudity in films, for the viewing pleasures of men. I feel that in this world, especially in the eyes of the media, women are seen as parts of a whole, for their assets, men are seen for what they have done or accomplished. This is truly shameful. I cringe every time I see more needless female nudity in movies as I feel each and every time it is only slowing equality. It is demeaning and belittling. I do not want to come across as a one sided radical feminist, because I am not. I can appreciate what you are all saying, though I myself have not witnessed this copious amount of male genetalia that you all claim is out there. I guess the fact that I’ve not seen almost any penis exposure in movies is the reason I feel so strongly about the opposing view. I’ve always thought that there was really none of it out there. I found it completely irritating to watch a movie with my boyfriend because of the gratuitous and ample amount of female nudity in films but lack of male nudity. I just didn’t think that I needed to always be the one sitting there while the only thing for him to look at was a hot naked female. Moving on... Yes, women have sex toy parties... but these sex toys are most often shared with their partner, to spice up their shared sex life. How is this degrading to men? The only reason men wouldn't do anything like it is because they would consider it to be "gay", or something ridiculous like that. And yes women do go to strip clubs, but the difference is that they don't sit there in a vegetable state drooling down their shirts while they are there. I’m talking as a whole, I am not ignorant and I know there are female pigs just the same. No doubt a strip club is demeaning no matter which way you look at it, or which gender is stripping, but being someone who has witnessed both a male and female strip club, there is a completely different aura in each place. This argument is getting excessive, and I am getting ganged up on, but I would like to comment on your child support argument Jeff. There are always two sides of every story. How about the countless dead beat dads out there, and the single moms who have had to do it all on their own? Those statistics far outweigh the good dads out there who have been cheated by the system. Would you not agree? And to Alexander, I think your point is completely and utterly misogynistic and I couldn't disagree more. Women have always been put in their place by men, men who control religion, men who created a religion which always view females as second best, men who have controlled society since the beginning of time. Women were never seen as smart enough, they were never given the opportunity to learn, or grow as individuals, in fact, up until recently they weren’t even seen as persons. That is the only reason why men have accomplished so much in known history. Women have been physically restricted from growth, and have been physically chastised for stepping out of line. Little is it publicized, but women have overcome a female holocaust. Does the witch craze of the 1400’s to 1700’s ring a bell? Ya, over 85% of those killed were women, and almost strictly because they were women. Men were afraid of them because they were gaining power and respect in society. I think humankind has achieved wonderful things; I think we have created many atrocities, but the bottom line is that had women have possessed more power, the world would be a far different place today. As we all know, the way we grow up, the ideals and formalities we are taught in our different cultures shape who and what we become. It takes a strong individual to overcome these teachings. Little girls are given dolls and kitchen sets and boys are given tool sets and hockey sticks. We are literally brainwashing children to become the ideal woman or man by society's rules. What you are saying is that there tends to be less of the brawny he-man hero type and helpless damsel in distress in today’s society that we know so well from fairy tales. Could it not be because we are becoming a more liberal and educated bunch, and that we are allowing children to be who they want to be, not who society says they should be? Being feminine and masculine is a wonderful thing, but it all comes down to the fact that we are all human beings, and that we should be treated with equal fairness and viewed as individuals. Anyway, like I said, society is changing... and I suppose maybe the fact could be that women are not moving their way up to equality; it's that men are becoming exploited and demeaned in some ways too. We are becoming a flock of sheep controlled by the government and the media. Molded and shaped until we are submissive and fearful; accepting of all that they force down our throats... such as retarded movies like this one that serves to entertain mindless idiots. I have nothing more to say about this issue at this point, as it’s becoming irritating. I should be spending this time working on my essay for university, not writing a long ass rant on this site. So good luck to all the exploited out there, I won’t be one of them. I've had enough of this conversation. I bid you adieau.
  • kim
    P.S. Sorry about the cramped text. I should have left more space between paragraphs.
  • Jeff
    Kim, you are a radical feminist and that's all you are. I suggest you get rid of your boyfriend and start dating females because you are clearly a bitter cunt. Men have never oppressed women. Men have achieved far more than a female will ever achieve because men ARE smarter than women. Alexander stated things men have done for the world. What have women given to society. Sex and the City! That's all women are interested in. If women were stronger and smarter than men, they wouldn't allow men to oppress them as you say we do. Men lead far better lives. A women will never lead the life of a man so deal with it. I see so many women and their lives are based on Sex and the City because they can't differentiate reality from that pathetic show. Men are so more well rounded than women. I see so many females and their lives are based around men and sex. No hobbies, no interest in politics or business. They don't want to take part in sports or much of anything else. They sit on their couches and watch brainless reality shows and Sex and the City. As far as your other stupid arguments about child support and strip clubs, you obviously just spew out rhetoric and no facts. Dead beat dads are beaten down by a system that tries to force them to pay amounts they cannot afford, doesn't allow them to see their children as often as they would like, forced to leave their home that THEY purchased, and you self-centered, vindictive women expect men to live in someones basement and live a sub-standard life so you can sit on your lazy asses and live off our money. Why should a man be forced to support a women when he's not with her anymore. If the courts would be more fair with custody and divorce, dead beat dads would be far fewer. As far as strip clubs, you give the same pathetic argument I constantly hear. Men are pigs and they degrade women. Women go to strip clubs just to have fun. BULLSHIT! Women are so piggish at strip clubs. Don't give me your bullshit argument. Women scream, grab the men as if they are a piece of meat and act like pigs. Everyone knows how women act at strip clubs. It's not a secret. Men admire the female form and are much more subdued at a strip club. Men are not allowed to touch the dancers and have far more respect for the female strippers than women have for the men. You think that women were exploited before by showing tits in movies. I can't wait for the time when showing a clear shot of a pussy occurs. Because it WILL happen. It's just a matter of time. That's what happens. The directors push the envelope more and more. Women and homosexuals have been calling for male full frontal. Well, female full frontal will be happening soon. Then we'll see how you feel.
  • Jeff
    By the way Kim, I am a divorced dad of a son. My ex and I are good friends because we didn't listen to the courts. We came up with our own equal and fair settlement. We share 50/50 with custody and we both are responsible on our own for his financial support. Our son is a respectful, smart, happy young child because of it. My ex and I are great friends and help each other out. If the courts would stop with their one-sided female oriented divorce and custody settlements, more cases like ours would occur. I'm lucky to have been with a fair women. Thank god it wasn't someone like you.
  • kim
    I don't understand why you don't go watch a porn if you are so concerned with seeing pussy in movies. There is no need to get hateful, and no need to call me a bitter cunt. What an atrocious word, you should feel dirty even saying it. All that name calling accomplishes is making you look dim-witted. I am very happy with my boyfriend, but thanks for the suggestion considering you know nothing about me or who I am. I have lots of friends, both guys and girls and they love me for me. Just because I will not sit by and accept the norm does not make me a bitter lesbian cunt. HA, how ignorant of you to say so. I'm glad that I do not just assume the position of the apathetic fuck who does not question anything in our society. It is people like this who make change. You are basing all of your assumptions about me on a fucking rant in a forum that only started with my disapointment in such an unintelligent and degrading movie, (yes both to men and women, don't get your knickers tied in a knot). With such a silly statement I almost feel like suggesting you start dating men considering you feel females are such a drain on society. I'm glad that a little debate turned into such a personal attack. Anyway, congratulations on how everything worked out with you and your family. It's the way things should be. Unfortunately this world is often not so ideal. But really, I'm glad things worked out. Anyway, I suppose we should agree to disagree, this is not getting anywhere. I am being personally insulted for disagreeing with you. Very juvenile. Now, if you'll excuse me, you've wasted enough of my time.
  • kim
    I really cannot comprehend why my opposing view has me labelled as a bitter dyke. You all have the completely opposite view, you are also radical in your views. Why then, am I not sitting there calling you bitter flamboyant faggots? Oh, because I know better than to simply assume things like that, and I have class. I do not need to resort to name calling.
  • Jeff
    I only used the word cunt to elicit a response from you. Now you know how some men feel when words for male genitalia are so frequently used in everyday language and media. You said that men think with their dicks and we have dick brain syndrome. I don't actually think your a cunt. I don't even know you. I do know that your views and many other females are always one-sided and women only want equality when it benefits them. Women can also be very vindictive. Why else would you want to watch movies in front of your boyfriend just to show him how you feel, especially if you're happy with him. He doesn't make the movies. low life's like Kevin Smith and Judd Apatow make this garbage. I also want to make it clear I agree with you on nudity. It is all gratuitous, male and female, but showing genitals is BY FAR more degrading and uncomfortable than seeing a breast or butt. American movies are pretty much garbage. None of this changes the fact that women seldom see things fairly. Have you ever seen female nudity in pg-13 movies. Yet there are a ton of movies with male nudity in them. Why is that? Look at things from both sides not just the female side. I was reading another blog about this movie and a bunch of women complained that this movie and so many other things in society were degrading and sexist to women and men are pigs. There was an argument from about 200 posts that went back and forth from men and women. Only one woman said that the "reason why people hate feminists isn't because they oppose their cause, but because feminists complain that EVERYTHING is degrading and sexist toward women even when there is absolutely NONE!" One woman who could think fairly and logically. That is why I get so frustrated with feminists and I believe most women are incapable of being fair and using logic. Thus the breasts=penis argument from so many women. I've always said gender wars are far worse than racism has been for 50 years. It keeps getting worse, and until feminists stop with their male bashing agenda, we will all lose.
  • Simpson
    Talk about a lack of respect women have for men nowadays and how women degrade men. Would a male ever do this to a female friend. Highly doubtful. And if they did and it was posted on the internet, you bet feminists would never shut-up about it and would probably demand criminal charges be brought against the males. http://deadspin.com/5075170/patriots-other-young-cheerleader-follows-well+traveled-path-to-stardom#viewcomments Why isn't there outrage over things like this. It reminds me of the company run by women that make shirts that say: Boys are Stupid and I hate boys: throw rocks at them; among other rude sayings against boys. It's just a joke when this stuff occurs and it is perceived as ok, but if this stuff was reversed there would be outrage. Men need to stand up, let their voice be heard, and demand respect the way women do. The squeaky wheel gets the oil as they say.
  • JOE
    I saw this movie tonight. It was pretty vulgar and this is coming from someone who is pretty liberal. There were only a couple of naked women in the movie. Most of the nudity was from males. There was an F-bomb every 30 seconds. Probably about 250 for the movie. I never heard the words cock, dick and balls so much. The male full frontal was definitely unnecessary. It was pretty graphic when he walked in the hall and bent over to get in the fridge and all you could see was his cock and balls dangling. One question I would have is in a movie about making a porn, has real porn stars in the movie, and has male full frontal, why would there not be any pussy shots in it? It just doesn't even make sense.
  • troy
    Wow, an interesting argument. As a guy, I have to admit I'm a bit embarrassed by all the times I've heard "balls" on regular television. I was watching TV with my 12 year old neice and her friends, and in the span of 1 1/2 hours, we witness males urinating, and several comments about balls and dicks, using those words. Wow. I've given up on HBO for all the male nudity there. And now this movie, Walk Hard, shows a couple of vivid shots of a dick/balls, while a nearby nude female is hidden. I don't have an explanation for any of this. I do think there are many gay men in Hollywood. I know gay men are behind the nude male explosion on HBO. In this society, it's okay to show males urinating or regular TV, say balls and dick on regular TV, and see detailed shots of dicks and balls on cable and mainstream movie. Men are hearby officially exploited, and as a guy, I hate the feeling. I don't know what the answer is, or will be.
  • Tim1974
    Troy, There are many men and women who believe inequality who are joining a group to fight this injustice. You can go to "www.fight-the-mpaa.com" (It is free) Hopefully, when enough people ban together some things may change. If you like what it is about, please spread the word. Thanks
  • Jim C.
    Have you guys seen this new movie that is coming out in March called Watchmen. It is s super hero movie like the Dark Night, yet it has a male character completely full frontally nude throughout the movie. It is unbelievable they are allowing this. What is even more shocking is that the MPAA approved a trailer for all audiences that is shown on t.v., in the theaters, and on the internet, that shows the full frontal nude penis. I am outraged that this is going on. The MPAA has lost it. My 7 year old son is going to want to see this movie and I'm sure my ignorant ex-wife will take him to see it. I am appalled. I just seen the trailer on t.v. a couple of days ago, and couldn't believe what I was seeing. What a joke!
  • Serena
    Oh please, breasts are flashed about everywhere, in every other movie, because it has become acceptable. Women (and men) just have to watch this gratuitous crap and shut the hell up because it's apparently 'normal'. I know I'm late to this conversation, but I only watched the film this weekend. Personally, I believe that the male bits (in their unexcited state) are roughly equivalent the shots of breasts that we are constantly exposed to (males have nothing that compares with breasts), along with full frontal femal nudity (just the pubic hair). Don't get me wrong, breasts are beautiful - but should be respected. A man with a hard penis, however, I'd say is equivalent to a proper look at a woman's genitalia. Men are so used to the fucked up inequality of the exposure of women that they are driven to complain about male full frontal nudity - I'll just leave them to that, then. I think Smith's produced a funny film that was fair to both sexes, and it is refreshing.
  • Serena
    I'll just amend my above post a little to say "*Some* Men are so used to the fucked up inequality of the exposure of women that they are driven to complain about male full frontal nudity..." - I don't want to make a sweeping generalisation.
  • Tim1974
    Serena- Breasts are not equal to showing male genitals. It just shows how illogical you are. You probably believe that #4=#6. No #4=#4 just like genitals are equal to genitals. I find it very interesting how females always wasnt equality but it seems only when it benefits them. if you were truly intertested in equality then you would realize that showing full frontal male nudity is equal to full frontal female nudity. Anything less is a double standard. Males are complaining because of this double standard. Go ahead and show male genitals as long as you show female genitals too. Anything less is not acceptable and just plain garbage. This movie does show both but there are too many films that just show male genitals. It has become redundant and disgusting. So if you really want equality then you also need to step up and realize what is being done to males is a double standard and wrong.
  • Serena
    Tim1974, what a garbled, repetitive response. I did a quick google initially after watching this movie, to see who else had flagged up equality because I had been so pleased by the balanced nature of it and wanted to see if people agreed - that's how I found this article. I notice your comments are dotted about everywhere on the internet relating to it. I recall about two films where I've seen full frontal male nudity in my lifetime, perhaps one or two more I may have forgotten, but no more than that. This one, and A Room With a View, I recall, which is a wonderful film. I think you must be searching them out. I'm curious; what is your view on what the male equivalent to breasts is? Is there one? And what is your view on those breasts that we see barely covered on men's mags in plain view, on page 3 of every other newspaper (I am from the UK; I don't know if this is the same for you if you're from the US), and in so many films that it is unreal. Do you believe that this is ok - what we want our young boys and girls to assume is ok? Is this a topic you're uninterested in because you don't have them yourself? Do you know what? You don't need to answer any of that that. I'm listening if you'd like to - I'd like some general background on your views, but undoubtedly the response will be the same stuck record. Surprise me.
  • Tim1974
    It is the same stuck record because it is the same double standard. Serena, there are many films that show just male genitals to a point where it has become disgusting. I don't care if they want to show full frontal male nudity but if they do then I want to also see full frontal female nudity too. I do not believe that showing breasts are in any way equal to showing the penis. Just like the #4 does not equal the #6. Only the #4 equals the #4, genitals are only equal to showing genitals. My own opinion is that I would prefer that there be no nudity in films because I don't believe it is ever necessary. Films can be made without showing it and it can be, at times, more exciting or funny to have to use your imagination and see peopl's expression who would be seeing it on film. I don't want to see either gender discriminated against. I wouldand have supported female concerns about things which you refered. However, when this continual double standard came to be against males I have found females want no part in supporting the male cause and therefore I no longer comment on any other equality issues. If I ever find a female or group of females who are as interested in the male discrimination as the female discrimination I would be more than pleased to once again voice my opinion in support of females. Until then, however, I feel I am on my own and will continue to make this double standard against males known.
  • Dan
    Serena, all I have to say is you need to take an anatomy class because you are pretty simple! Breasts equal a penis. WOW! I just don't get how illogical women are. Why would God make these creatures? Are you all this simple-minded? Get a clue! And as far as only seeing this movie and A Room With a View being the only two movies with male full frontal nudity, you obviously don't watch movies, Showtime, or HBO. Turn on HBO any night and you will see plenty of penises. I'm fed up with this double standard and I'm going to start writing the MPAA and demanding to see some pussy in movies, just like women have done for years. And come to think of it, I'm going to start complaining to the networks and asking them to have many more words and jokes about female genitals because I'm sick of hearing all the vulgar terms for male genitals even during the day on regular tv. Stop thinking only from the female perspective! Oh, I forgot, women are completely incapable of being fair and thinking objectively. You should read some of the earlier posts, especially from Jeff and a couple others who pointed out other double standards against men.
  • Serena
    Gentlemen, I reiterate, because you don't seem to grasp this: what is the male equivalent to breasts, in terms of the explicit nature of body parts? Tim1974, I am glad that you support the concerns of both sexes, even if we disagree on this particular subject. Dan love, I don't get Showtime or HBO - I live in the UK, and I watch an awful lot of films.
  • Tim1974
    Dan- I agree with you. If you find a site or location or way that allows me to express my concerns to the MPAA or networks please let me know. I am sick and tired of this double standard and it is apparent there will be no female support for equality. It doesn't seem like this double standard will stop too soon with this disgusting "Bruno" film on the way. However, I want these people to know how I feel.
  • Serena
    It's so hard to answer the most straightforward of questions isn't it? Especially when it is inconvenient for one's argument. Willful ignorance, that's what it is. You go on believing, you little troopers. My email notification is about to be turned off, so you can continue this one sided debate all by yourselves. We'll just carry on being bitter four letter words, according to the sound judgement of the modern man. ;)
  • Edward
    As Tim pointed out, there is a preponderance of full frontal male nudity in mainstream film these days. (For the record, I am a heterosexual male with a healthy sex life, and not a prude or an easily shocked elderly person.) The point is not, as some of the women writing into this forum try and make out, that we just want to see more female genitalia, and we should therefore watch adult pornography. What we don't want to see is an inordinate and gratuitous amount of male genitalia in films. We don't wan't to see more of either sexes genitalia than the opposites in this respect. There obviously is no male 'equivalent' to female breasts, and it is very debatable what the male equivalent might be, but it is certainly not the genitals, or any part of them. Strangely, women don't seem to think that men feel uncomfortable or embarrassed at the unnecessary depiction of male nudity. The impression I have is that we should just 'laugh it off'. They wouldn't, if the tables were turned. I've read comments where some women have said ridiculous things like: "showing the breasts is equivalent to showing the penis in film", and showing an erect penis would be like showing detail of the vulva. I beg to differ. How this is rationalized, one wonders. When male nudity is portrayed, one can see not only the penis, but the testicles and about half the time the glans too. Only showing the vulva in detail, and that means at least the labia and the clitoris, with the prepuce pulled back some of the time to reveal the glans, would be about the equivalent. Actually, it wouldn't be really of course, because the clitoris is rather small, and one would very seldom see all of the clitoris, so it would only be the equivalent if at least the inner labia, if not the vagina, were visible as well. The equivalent to showing an erect penis, cannot only be showing the vulva in detail as mentioned above, and because one would rarely see all of the clitoris, it would certainly have to include the vagina as well, and would also have to include showing lubrication fluid, or an obviously lubricated vagina - as that would indicate arousal - as in an erect penis. There is no two-ways about it. Most women would probably not agree with this, simply because they would not be able to stomach this being shown in mainstream cinema, but they expect men to accept images of erect penises. Showing a woman lubricating is not equivalent to showing a man ejaculating (which I've heard a few mainstream films are now even showing) either, as some women might want to argue - ejaculating is beyond arousal. The only thing that would be equivalent to that as far as a woman's sexual organs are concerned, would be the depiction of a woman ejaculating, which I believe is possible with some women. Detailed images of vulva's are not even being portrayed, never mind lubricating, so I doubt we are going to see scenes of women ejaculating in mainstream cinema any time soon! It has been said that a woman's vulva is more intimate than a man's penis. Why should this be the case? This perception is only prevalent due to the literal and frequent exposure of the male genitalia on film as well as the continuous torrent of vulgar slang attributed to parts of the male genitalia, reducing it to something to be ridiculed and scorned - to be shown no respect. Women seem quite happy with seeing male genitalia on screen, non - aroused or erect, but I wonder how uncomfortable, upset and embarrassed they would be if suddenly a splayed vulva were shown with at least a fair amount of detail in an R rated film, one they were watching with their boyfriend, or worse, their teenage son? How would they feel if they were watching an R rated film with a new date, and a scene showed a vulva in detail with lubrication fluid trickling out of it indicating arousal - as in an erect penis? They would feel downgraded, humiliated and embarrassed! There would be a huge outcry from women, strongly voicing how demeaning and exploitative it is to women! But it's okay to show an erect penis, and even more. Men, apparently, just aren't bothered, or have the same feelings as women. Strangely, such is the perception. It is disconcerting at how much bad language, even in 'family' sitcoms there is nowadays - much of it referring to the male genitalia. These words are so well know, that I'm sure I don't have to give examples thereof. Besides the word 'tits' and the other one referring to the female genitalia beginning with a 'p' - which you will never hear in a sitcom - only in films with higher age restrictions, try and think of any other slang vulgar words for the female genitalia which you have heard on T.V or films lately. Funnily enough, there are only one or two common slang words for the labia or vulva - which are seldom heard even in feature films, and there are no slang words for the clitoris at all. Why is this? I believe lesbians have a few, but they are not in common use. One would think that the clitoris would provide enough ammunition for a plethora of slang vulgar terms - it is simply a smaller version of the penis, it also has a foreskin, it also becomes erect - so why is it taboo to ever mention it? The only film I can think of where the clitoris is mentioned is 'Shirley Valentine', and it wasn't in either a vulgar or disparaging way. Why all the secrecy when it comes to a woman's genitalia? There are a few reasons for this. As already pointed out, Hollywood knows that there would be an outcry and severe backlash by women's rights groups, so thay play it safe. Women would say that it invades their rights and could lead to the abuse of women and children, etc. I agree with that to a large extent. But certainly then, showing male genitalia invades men's rights and could lead to the abuse of children to the same extent. Sadly, there are no men's groups which could also apply pressure on Hollywood. There should be. I doubt only Tim and I, and a few others feel this way! I think the fact that there are a few homosexuals in prominent positions in Hollywood might play a role in the glut of graphic male nudity now on screens, but not to a large extent. I think the simple fact that the male genitals are much more easily 'displayed' in film is also a key factor. A male only has to take off his trousers or underpants in any scene, whereas a woman would either have to sit with her legs especially parted (which is not the way a woman commonly sits) or lie down with her legs splayed before much genital detail could be seen. Which scenes in any film (except porno) would justify that, except love scenes? But even in love scenes there is no detail shown. Once again, I am not advocating showing more and more nudity - I would prefer far less, and portrayed in a more tasteful manner. It's one thing to show nudity, male or female, in certain lighting where you can't make out much detail at all - in a film with an appropriate restriction - but the way things are moving, it is becoming ridiculous and disgusting. Unfortunately, as the years go by, there probably will be more graphic female nudity shown, along with even more graphic male nudity, leading to the abuse of the rights of both sexes and that of minors. It is simply a manisfestation of the bankruptcy and decay of morality, which it has been proven leads to all manner of social ills.
  • strap on
    I've met some people saying that this movies is demeaning and just vulgar, It seems to me their opinion is based just on the word"porno" in the title. I pretty much like every single Kevin Smith movie he has done. At least he has not turned into M. Night Shyamalan and made one great movie and then nothing good ever since. If you can't laugh at a Kevin Smith movie then you take yourself way too seriously. Loosen up and enjoy it for what it is...entertainment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Jack Hoff USA
    A window into American moral values, or to be more precise, the COMPLETE LACK thereof. Miri and Zack are two 30-something losers (with a capital L) who, just like the U.S. Fed, suddenly find themselves utterly bankrupt and on the verge of homelessness. So in typical American fashion, they both decide to take the easy way out and make a porno movie for some quick cash. Of course their decision leaves the viewer confused as to why they don't simply just go out and get themselves a F'ing JOB instead, but THAT would be a sensible solution and Americans are definitely NOT interested in THOSE. One is also left wondering why Miri doesn't just go sell one of her kidneys, until one realizes the BRILLIANCE of her plan; she can only sell one of her kidneys ONCE, whereas she can rent-out her vagina over and over again until it's stretched-out like an old, used rubber band. Ah, doesn't American entrepreneurship just WARM your heart? This movie features the usual torrent of F-words and vulgar language that we've all come to expect from this particular director, along with some sofisticated acting on the part of such well-known Thespians as Traci Lords, who plays a prostitute that can blow bubbles with her vagina. Kinda like Alan Greenspan and Bernanke do except Traci's bubbles DON'T impoverish half of humanity. Back to this flick; if you're the typical American that likes to masturbate with one hand while holding a Chicken McSandwich with the other, SEE IT. If on the other hand you value quality, logic, intelligence and have a strong set of moral values, DON'T BOTHER.
  • http://www.loveshoponline.ca sex toys toronto
    The idea for the movie doesn't seem too bad, but I'm no a huge fan of comedies that are purely based on sexual content. Of course lots of it is down right hilarious, but there are plenty of comedies out there that keep it clean and are just as funny.
  • Aerohawk13
    Just an FYI here...Zack and Miri DOES show labia. In the strip club scene, there is a closeup of a naked woman dancing from the rear and her bare buttocks and labia are clearly visible. Also, imo, chest=chest, male or female, buttocks=buttocks, flacid penis=labia, erect penis=spread labia(exposed clitoris and vagina). I think that the balance of male/female nudity in media is fairly equal, though there does seem to be some fear in Hollywood of showing labia.
  • Aerohawk13
    Zack and Miri does show labia. In the strip club scene, there is a closeup of a naked woman dancing from the rear. Her buttocks and labia are clearly visible.

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