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'Dark Knight' Cinematographer Wally Pfister Calls 'Avengers' Appalling

by
October 17, 2012
Source: Sarasota Herald Tribune

Wally Pfister

Well, this is definitely going to cause some fanboy bickering. There's no doubt that two of the biggest films of the year are The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises. Of course, each is special in their own way and has a vastly different style and storytelling technique. However, it's safe to say that directors Joss Whedon and Christopher Nolan mostly hit the mark with their blockbusters. However, if Nolan's cinematographer Wally Pfister puts in his two cents, the Marvel superhero ensemble didn't impress him at all. In fact, Pfister says, ""I thought The Avengers was an appalling film." And cue all the Marvel fanboy rage! Read on!

Well, before you get too bent out of shape. Pfister get's a little more specific with his criticism. The director of photography explained to The Sarasota Herald Tribune (via The Playlist):

"They’d shoot from some odd angle and I’d think, why is the camera there? Oh, I see, because they spent half a million on the set and they have to show it off. It took me completely out of the movie. I was driven bonkers by that illogical form of storytelling."

I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean he hated everything about the film, but the way it was shot by Seamus McGarvey (who also lensed We Need to Talk About Kevin and Anna Karenina and will also shoot the new Godzilla), just didn't sit well with Pfister. Frankly, the film is shot in a way that fits with the story's style and tone. Pfister likes to shoot his films more realistically and gritty, and it's no surprise that he didn't like The Avengers since it wasn't shot the way he likes to see a movie. Just seems like a personal preference.

Still, those seem like some harsh words from a man who hasn't directed his own film yet, but the guy does know how to shoot a film beautifully. However, you can be sure his directorial debut being produced by Nolan and the director's wife Emma Thomas will be under much more fan scrutiny now. As for that project, Pfister says, ""It’s a present-day science fiction film, a fairly big concept. It’s bigger budget — not as big as 'Batman,' but not independent." Stay tuned for more.

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  • I can hear the surge of fanboy comments coming like a tidal wave... :
  • Danimal
    I think my desk just shook
  • ... this just made my day :)
  • Ryderup
    Well... TDKR had its problems too...
    • Ryderup
      And I had more problems with the AR and the flat digital/TV-series look of Avengers.
  • one
    haha- I agree in a way. I thought the movie was entertaining, don't get me wrong, but there were tons of plot holes and things that just didnt make sense. Kind of like Prometheus...
    • ... except Prometheus shoot for a lot more (whether it failed at that depends on your point of view)
  • mandawg
    Why can there be no truce between Marvel and DC? I don't want my grandchildren to have to live in a world that divides them based on their comic book preferences (***cries uncontrollably*** - well, not really).
    • ... haha! that's part of the fun isn't it?
      • mandawg
        Totally.
    • Dominic A
      can there be a truce between Microsoft and Apple ? Apple and Google ? no because they are competing businesses. If somebody buys them both , well even then a LITTLE competition would be good for business . That Demon Capitalism at work .....
  • BK
    Well, as a cinematographer, he may have valid complaints. But, movie-wise, The Dark Knight Rises is overrated as hell. It may not have reached the heights of The Dark Knight, but it's still helluva overrated. At least The Avengers was just pure fun. It seemed like it embraced the setting and the constructs very well. TDKR tried to be the epic conclusion and failed, quite miserably too I might add. There were standout performances, much better than any in The Avengers, from most of the cast save Cotillard's and Hardy's. IMO, the story of TDKR was just limp. Weak villains without a shred of a real plan and since that's all there is to these movies, it fails. Pity too, considering Gordon Levitt and Hathaway were brilliant and could've/should've been involved with the franchise sooner or at least deserved a better movie. Not sure what it is with conclusions but only Toy Story 3 and Return of the King have nailed it for me. Deathly Hallows 2 was a right mess, Transformers 3 was godawful (but I guess it's now not the final one), Mockingjay-the book- was Twi-lite etc.
    • John
      You must've watched the wrong movie. TDKR storyline>Avengers, Avengers assemble!---> kill the main villain, wait who is it again? That wuss loki and those rtarded aliens? Oh god. The Avengers never had a threat, not a single minute in that whole film. Such a kid's movie. I'm suprised you aren't a transformers 3 fan, with that taste/knowledge of yours.
      • rocky728
        TDKR is a kid movie fooling you into thinking it's deeper than it is. Reminds me of the 60s Bat serries when the bad guys would always catch Batman and put him in a trap so he could escape. It's just as absurd. The difference is that the Avengers isn't afraid to be a comic book superhero movie while Batman manage to fool you "smart" people into thinking it's something more....it isn't
        • Jeff
          It is something more, you completely missed the whole fcking point of the trilogy. Maybe you're too dumb to understand, actually yes you are too damn dumb to figure it out for yourself. Do yourself a favor you unintelligent fool, rewatch the movies. Learn what art is, learn what a symbol can do to a whole city, learn what motivates and inspires people. Or you can just go watch Advengers and lose more brain cells. Kid.
          • rocky728
            Come on kid, Nolan's dick is too far up your mouth and probably tickling your brains or lack there of. You're fooling yourself. The Avengers has as much sacrifice, team work and putting the greater good ahead of petty rivalries. See both films have corny kid messages. You only see the one you want and make excuses for its idiocy and castigate the other. We need to wean you off Nolan's cum so you can think clearly
    • I agree with everything you just said. I was pretty much alone with my opinion on TDKR.
    • rocky728
      He may have valid points from a technical point but when you're an "artist" you're free to try something new and different. Maybe Pfister is just too close minded for that.
  • Big Jesse
    the term "fanboy" is apalling. who came up with this name? so freakin gay!
  • Lagoya
    Well nobody cares about the camera angles used etc, the Avengers had a better story and vastly better action sequences than the underwhelming TDKR and that's all that matters.
    • John
      Totally wrong. I enjoyed both films, but to say that the camera angles don't matter is just uniformed. The placement of the camera, the way it moves during the shot, the lens used, the lighting on set/location - it all affects the audience's perception of the scene.
    • John
      I'm sorry am I reading this correctly? "Avengers had a better story and better action sequences" Please tell me I'm misreading that.
      • rocky728
        Well the Avengers didn't have anyone fixing a broken back by hanging up someone with a rope and punching his back in. That alone is more fiction than the whole of the Avengers
        • Jeff
          Idiocracy at its finest.
  • ictimer
    Why is this guy talking shit? I understand it's his opinion, but to just shit on other peoples work in print or in any public forum is kind of a dickish move, in my opnion.
    • rocky728
      JEALOUSY, isn't it obvious?
      • BloodwerK
        No doubt...
        • Dominic A
          I think if u remember that the camera seems to be at head level or above , especially for the action scenes . Maybe he wants what you COULD call the " Tom Cruise Camera Angle " which is always at chest or waist to make him seem taller . 'Cause he's not saying the movie SUCKED , only that the camera angle ruined it for HIM . It seems jealous only because neither movie " sucked " , so it's just a public opinion from someone in the biz who should be ACTING professional ....
      • Manny
        Why must he be jealous to think that a movie sucks, and what exactly is he jealous for, The Dark Knight Rises is a successful movie, in fact, is one of the most successful films of all time, can it simply be that he thinks that The Avengers wasn't that good.
  • JBrotsis
    Joss Whedon- "What's that Pfister, you're fading out? We've broken too many records! We can't hear you through all of this box office money!"
    • Edcar007
      Pfister- ''And this gives you power over me?''
    • John
      Money means nothing my friend, hey remember what happened before TDKR came out? Many reports coming out saying it was going to be the biggest blockbuster, Ever. Then some crazy man shoots up a theatre....yea I remember that.
    • Rain Spider
      A whole squad of Superhero's (Avengers) who have their own fan base against 1 Superhero (Batman) who has his own fan base. People seem to forget that people show up cause they are fans of The Avengers, but also people show up cause they are fans of a Certain Superhero (Hulk, Iron man, or Cap.) TDK broke records too way before they Avengers rolled around. It took The Incredible Hulk, Cap, Iron man, Thor, and Hawkeye all teaming up to reach the billion dollar mark. Also the advantage of Some Loon shooting up a movie theater for TDKR.
      • Joe
        It's amazing how these Avengers fanboys just keep forgetting about that tragedy. Let's see how many movies there were before Avengers:Cpt. America, 2 hulk movies, 2 iron man movies and a Thor movie. Not sure if I should truly count both hulk movies, oh well. 5-6 movies before ADvengers. And it still barely beat TDKR, only 400 million difference 1.5 billion v 1.1 billion with many reports coming out thursday night before the premiere stating that TDKR was going to be getting the biggest weekend record of all time.
        • JBrotsis
          I like how we got all the DC fans coming on here and trying to say how TDKR was better than Avengers. You say money isn't an issue but yea it is. It shows more people worldwide wanted to see Avengers over TDKR. You can say the Avengers had all the individual movies first before the final BIG movie, but so did DK, it had the two following movies to end the saga. Plus, yea there was the shooting incident that you could say altered the could have been different box office money, but I still saw TDKR opening day and I know all you DC fans did too. I was willing to go see TDKR no matter what because I too was stoked for it. But aside from the shooting, lets just look internationally, Avengers did more damage than TDKR. And majority of people have said Avengers was a great movie (which did have few flaws) but it was a great movie for the genre of superhero movie it was trying to create. However, loads of people didn't like TDKR and how it concluded, saying TDK was a lot better than Rises. And that's in the genre of how it was made (the nolan, dirty gritty genre). So money kinda does matter in the sense that it shows the number of people, WORLDWIDE, that wanted to see the movie the opening weekend and the weekends following. TDKR was a good movie, and so was Avengers (better though :) ), but there's no point in arguing over something that has strong evidence. Check and mate!
          • sadly your words will be lost here. :(
          • JBrotsis
            I know, it sucks. There's too many people wanting to come on here and badmouth the movie. But the box office is evidence so all these TDKR fans who have to insult the rest of us to try and get their points across can shove it.
          • Ant87
            So because the avengers has the highest gross then clearly as you said above its the better film ?? Yes I thought so , so clearly you are stating ... Which infact is true .. That its the highest grossing film of all time ,which in your dickhead opinion means ,based on your previous comment ..... that the avengers is the greatest movie of all time !!!! what a dick you are stupid boy
          • Jerry
            And the stupidity of the Advengers fans keep on rolling in. Let's see here, you ignored the fact that there was a tragedy in Colorado, Mexico and some other countries that copycatted what happened in Colorado. So sales went down 40%, do you know how much 40% is, child? I doubt it. Who are you to say that the MAJORITY of people enjoyed Advengers more? And a boatload of people didn't like TDKR? Astounding. Oh my goodness....I think we all forgot the biggest factor of box office results....3d versus non 3d. Go do the math. 2 previous movies vs. 6 previous movies. Once again, figure your math out. You're saying Advengers is better, in which departments? I'm not hearing them. And no my boy, there is no strong evidence, you are talking out of your ass and by reading everything you right I come to the conclusion that you are indeed an ignorant child that needs hugs. Sad sad Advengers boy.
          • please just stop
          • Jeff
            Why? Because I'm proving how STUPID you Advengers fans are? Every single point you guys make is just coming straight out of your asses. You guys don't know shit about film, please stay the hell away from that industry. We don't need childish dumb movies to dumb down the American people even further. You guys are the problem.
          • maybe some guy on the internet getting angry and insulting people about a comicbook movie is the problem with Americans.
          • Ant87
            I second that !!!!
        • rock
          Don't forget avengers also earned extra 3d money, which probably accounts for around 500million.
    • Ant87
      Not sure it earnst more at the box office than tdkr but if it did it was only because of the 3d tickets ....fact I enjoyed the avengers at the time however after it sank in I was a little disappointed with a lot of the scenes,acting and badly delivered jokes :( thanks RDJr .. I actually preferred spidey to the avengers and if I'm honest I've never been a fan of spidey however tdkr was an incredible bit of cinema and although it had its faults as pointed out in previous post I felt they were forgivable in avengers it goes to show how unintersting the characters really were when a big green cgi hulk steals the show infact the movie as a whole felt incredibly bright to look at an a huge portion of which was cgi and was quite poor when you consider the budget . By the way I am a fan of movies in general and watch around 200 different movies a year so I'm no Nolan fanboy I appreciate movies not just one persons work . Someone in an earlier post quoted how tdkr was a rushed sequal bb was released in 2004 I think tdk 2008 tdkr 2012 the avengers had 6 films leading up to it and in if I'm not mistaken less time !!! The first iron man was 2008 !!! The u had hulk the Incredible Hulk iron man 2 Thor and captain America that is a rushed sequal !!! IMO < that is greed on marvels point of view and if we are honest here the marvel film are ok they are not particularly bad but the bean trilogy offers just that bit more
  • Team Jacob
    finally someone said it! Avengers was awful! felt exactly same way watching it, could never escape. Good artistic film making= TDKR and Prometheus Bad shiny Propaganda film making that gets shoved down your throat with a fucking shovel= Avengers and Taken 2
  • bat0u
  • He's absolutely right! this is the man who shot a chase sequence inside a tunnel where in every frame there were shots like this "Car, no car, police car to the right..now left, wall then no wall, then bait van dumped in the river but hit from the wrong side, then no cars then a bunch o cars going the wrong way on the wrong lane, then no wall, then the tumbler crash into a non existing wall"....bravo Wally you are so right...
  • JP
    "I was driven bonkers by that illogical form of storytelling." - Did this guy even bother to watch his own last film? I'd love for him to explain his way out of all of the illogical gaps in TDKR. "...why is the camera there?" I'd asked myself the same question when I saw a long shot of a hundred unarmed police officers running at soldiers with automatic weapons. It's like -- "Look at how many extras we have" but it makes no sense.
    • This^ why are so many people ignoring the flaws in TDKR?
      • Jessie
        Compare it to the flaws of Avengers then come back to me
    • How is that a flaw, It is suppose to be the entire police force of Gotham. You not liking the scene is not the same as it being a flaw.
  • I can admit Avengers had its problems but i did enjoy it. TDKR on the other hand, got caught up its own idea of it being the realistic, artistic superhero film that the BS and logic in that movie became more glaring. It was easier to let things go in Avengers with its silly aliens and gods. Good luck Gotham citizens with that radiation poisoning.
    • Jerry
      Or how about the idea that anyone can become the Batman? That you can be more than a symbol? That you can singlehandidly change a city forever? How about that, not powerful enough? Not inspirational enough? Nahhhh Hulk smash loki is way better, am i right? Stupid idiot doesn't know a damn thing about story.
      • what about oh i know youre batman because i can see it your eyes. It wouldve been easier to say "hey bruce wayne and batman havent showed up in 8 yrs. I guess he's batman."
        • Jerry
          You ignored everything I said. Did Advengers have heart in the movie? Did you care at all about the characters? Not really. Cuz I knew all along not a single one would die. Did Advengers have any character development WHATSOEVER? Let me know.
          • I was a bit upset about Coulson but he now lives in the TV show lol.
          • Jerry
            Another comedic character that I personally didn't give a damn about. See how forgetful he was?
          • JBrotsis
            @16e71c277c3fe3ba57152b0aefd96587:disqus Dude, its fucking spelt "AVENGERS" not "ADVENGERS"! Gosh dude you're a moron! Stop calling everyone stupid and dumb when you can't even spell the word right! Its one word!
          • Jeff
            You obviously don't understand why I spell it as Advengers, but children are very naive and dumb after all.
          • Jimmy Love
            Obviously you children are naive and dumb.
          • Lagoya
            The Avengers didn't need character development, thats why each of the characters had their OWN INDIVIDUAL MOVIE for that released before the Avengers.
          • BloodwerK
            Yep. That way there was no need to waste time setting all that bullshit up...
          • rocky728
            Who dies in TDKR that anyone cared about?
      • rocky728
        How about team work? putting petty issues aside and working for the greater good, how about sacrifice? All in the Avengers
    • Jerry
      Laughing my ass off. Mr. Fletcher here is an animator himself. This explains why he likes cartoons over cinema. Ahhh what a waste of talent, if any. With this taste, you are going nowhere with that career of yours. Until you will be able to distinguish what is a good film and what isn't. Too bad you're too dumb to figure it out for yourself.
      • I did enjoy TDKR. I dont think its a great film. TDK was a better film. Avengers gave me everything I expected. Was it super serious? No. Was it fun? Yes. Thats totally fine. I had higher expectations for TDKR. The Nolans films started to take themselves too seriously and things like Blake knowing the identity of Batman because of a look in his eye felt like total BS. By the end of the movie i felt Bane was a lot less interesting of a character after the big twist. I dont understand the need for person insults. Its just an opinion dude.
        • Jerry
          We are talking about the quality of the movie overall. If you truly believe that Advengers was a better movie, better story, better acting, better music, better cinematography then I have an obligation to open your eyes. You see, TDKR surpasses advengers in all those categories. Bane was a hell of a lot more interesting than.....Loki. Loki was a complete joke, a complete damn joke. I was very upset what they did to him, showed how lazy they were. Did Advengers have more laughs? Yes. More fun? Probably a bit and it's only a bit more fun because of the laughs, but that isn't the point of the movie now is it? I personally like to be challenged as a viewer and Christopher Nolan has done it repeatedly.
          • In this entire thread i did not say Avengers was a better film artistically. I said i enjoyed the Avengers more. Obviously the cinematography in TDKR was superb. Acting was great and the directing was top notch. I wasnt a huge fan of the script and that has been one of the strong points of the Nolan films. Thats what made Batman Begins so great (even though i wasnt a huge fan of the action). TDKR got a little too comic booky and i went in expecting a more grounded film. TDKR is the least favorite of the Nolan films. Memento is #1 and TDK #2. Avengers went crazy with being like a comic book. Thats fine. There is room for both style of films to exist. It doesnt have to be one or the other. So can you please stop insulting me and have an adult conversation.
          • Jerry
            If you truly enjoyed Advengers more than TDKR then that's sad. It really is sad. Advengers never had HEART in the movie, never had a moment where I would shake or say wow, that's amazing! Doesn't even have a message. Notice how I call it Advengers. I clearly cannot get this through your thick skull. Evidently your taste is that of a child's. Damn shame. Good luck.
          • wow dude. seriously whats your problem?
          • Lagoya
            Everyone I have spoken to thought TDKR was shit and the Avengers was great, so nobody cares what you think because you're wrong.
          • Dominic A
            Apparently he CAN'T have an adult conversation . one that calls for sharing opinions without insulting others in the Conversation . And nobody's commented on my 1st reply to Jerry and JBrotsis , prob because it'll STOP the argument in it's tracks.
      • also Cartoons=Cinema. Pixar says hi
        • Jerry
          That isn't what I meant...unbelievable. We have a stupid corny/childish/cartoony movie called the Advengers, which should sit in the comedy category, versus an epic beautiful looking movie called The Dark Knight Rises.
  • Caleb Hale
    That's cool. I thought TDKR was boring and bland. Loved Avengers though.
    • Jerry
      Sure, most unintelligent fools enjoyed avengers over tdkr. TDKR had too much story for the average stupid mind of the people. But that's okay, avengers was dumb enough to please those that cannot tell what's art or not.
      • TDKR had too much stupid for the avearge stupid mind of people.
        • Jerry
          Lol and this is why you're not going anywhere with that career of yours. Amazing english skills, you, Brandon, are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. Please continue on, show us how much dumber you can sound.
          • Half that sentence belongs to you. It was a joke dude calm down. Neither of those films are art. Its funny how we get with comicbook movies. A friend of mind from the UK put TDKR and Avengers in the same category even though people like to think of one as art and one a hollywood blockbuster. Its all perception and opinion. Seriously calm down. What are you gaining from the personal insults?
          • Jerry
            One is art and the other is comedic garbage.
          • Lagoya
            Well to use your own analogy - Yes, but some art is complete bullshit. just take a look in the Tate Modern. That's what TDKR is, it's a Rothko painting, 2 colours slapped on a canvas, its no Michaelangelo.
          • i like that. im a fan of both artist and both movies. just like one more than the other 😀
      • rocky728
        Full of yourself ain't you? You guys always talk about smart but are full of shit. Villain catches hero, doesn't kill him. Takes him across the world and puts him in front of a tv, doctor cures him by punching his back in and hanging him by a rope, escapes same as a 10 year old girl that somehow no one else could make the same jump, makes it back in the city from across the globe as if nothing, 6 months a bomb is riding around in a truck instead of just blowing up the city not to mention killing the hero. The main villain is just a pussy whooped henchman. Wayne goes broke after the stunt at the stock market? all those trades would be cancelled. He survives a nuclear blast. Robin figured his secret just by the look on Wayne's face? I can go on and on but the movie was shit, ok maybe that's too strong but if you think you're smart because you like it then it just shows how dumb you truly are. Pretentious fuck
        • Jeff
          Nice, your icon shows how old you are you little twat. Just one question, because you Advengers children will never learn. Did Avengers have an antagonist? Oh and can someone please please please remind me what his last quote was. Just amazing.
          • rocky728
            Twat? don't speak of that which you've never seen.
      • Lagoya
        Too much story? LOL! The story of TDKR was boring and predictable with more plot holes than a sieve. please explain to me how a broken back heals in a matter of weeks? or how you get from the middle of a desert back to Gotham city with no resources whatsoever? Or how Bane and Talia knew about Bruce Wayne's secret part of Wayne Enterprises when it was completely off the books? or how Batman escaped a nuclear explosion when there was no possible way he could escape the blast radius in time? Did he swim the 5 miles back to shore? The list goes on...
      • Josh Taylor
        Yawn, story and superhero movies don't go together. Neither of the movies had a story to write home about. Fact of the matter, Avengers is more entertaining than TDKR at least to me. If you are going to a superhero comic film for stories then you obviously don't know jack about movies. Sorry but TDKR is no where even close to art.
        • Jeff
          You fail to understand a damn thing of everything written here. Go back to school, learn and develop some skills and come back okay? You idiot.
      • Dude, seriously why are you such as pretentious asshole, I know a lot of people who saw the avengers that aren't totally dumbasses like you've been saying. I personally loved both movies but in differently ways, I even liked Prometheus and am fine with people shiting on it too. If you want to ripe on a movie that's fine, there's no reason to insult someone who is passionate about something your not.
  • Both movies were appalling, Wally. Amateur pieces of storytelling. Not to mention it showcased grown men running around in spandex punching each other. So there! Signed, CHRONICLE fans
  • Jake
    I like Pfister's work but this just comes across incredibly childish. There were some really fantastic shots in The Avengers and the story is put together in a much more sensible way even though its a more difficult movie to write.
    • Jerry
      I'm sorry, how was Avengers a difficult movie to write? You have these superheros with their own movies. All Mr. Whedon had to do was cut and paste and walla, you got your avengers. With ofcourse the stupid comedy throughout the whole movie, no epic scenes, no epic music, no formiddable antagonist. What happened to Loki? And the god awful aliens....the Advengers never had anything to fear, they were never threatened. Such a happy ending, childish movie. But hey it connects with a lot of dumb people these days.
      • JBrotsis
        @Jerry Dude you're seriously a huge baby. You're commenting on every person's comment who was positive for the Avengers and just badmouthing all of it. If you disliked the movie, then good for you...and fuck off. Cut and paste my ass...I didn't see Red Skull, Abomination, Whiplash in the Avengers. Epic scenes, there were too many to count (Hulk smashing head of alien serpent, thor's hammer on capt shield, Hulk smashing Loki, just seeing the hellicarrier) and the music was just as inspiring as TDKR. Formiddable antagonist...ill say this..both movies do the same where the villain wins throughout the movie then looses in the end. Loki/Bane its all the same. You speak so highly of yourself considering the rest of us being dumb, however Avengers is spelt without a "d"; its not "Advengers" dumbass. Don't go see Avengers 2 or any of the other Phase 2 individual movies if you hate it all already. And finally, take the tampon out of your ass. Later.
        • Jerry
          First, it's called Advengers because that's all it is a big fat advertisement to make money and make a movie out of laziness. Batman was not cut and paste, batman was reinvented, you turd. What are these epic scenes are you talking about? Advengers had none, if you thought hulk smashing that alien and saying I'm always mad, is epic? Then I feel bad for you kid. Bane had ALOT more development than that snooze loki. Loki was a comedic antagonist, you turd. But what else do you expect from Advengers fans? Besides their stupidity.
          • clinteastwoodscloset
            Name one way Bane was different in the end than he was in the beginning
          • Jerry
            That isn't the point, you retard. My goodness, this will never get through you Advengers children. And let me tell you something, The Dark Knight Trilogy will be known for many many years to come as being one of the best trilogies of all time. Up there with Lord of the rings, they will never remember a cartoonish movie called the Advengers. Why? Plot sucks, acting sucks, ITS A COMEDY MOVIE. Not a movie about its superheros and there's just no HEART in it. Not a single moment in that movie made me go...Wow.
          • Vitokris
            Bane changed in the measures he needed to deal with Batman. First time they face, it was bare knuckle brawl. Second fight, Bane pulls a shotgun on Batman, very different turn on fighting an enemy. All the same, you picked the wrong character for the example. Bruce Wayne developed more than any of the Avengers characters (not even Iron Man who changed the most in the film.).
          • rock
            He was wearing a different set of clothes...BURN!!
      • clinteastwoodscloset
        Don't all superhero movies have characters the writer can just cut and paste FROM THE COMICS? I do agree that TDKR was more ambitious and tried to tell a more sophisticated story, but the simple truth is it failed as a movie. I wish it had succeeded because we could've had a movie for the ages, but it ended up feeling like a rushed sequel that couldn't live up to it's predecessor. The Avengers on the other hand succeeded in being a fun comic book popcorn flick. It even explored the dynamics of the group in a much more mature and sophisticated way than I expected. In the end The Avengers accomplished it's goal and TDKR did not. But honestly in the long run both movies will probably be forgotten. The superhero genre will someday be seen as the modern western. Mostly trash with a few gems in the mix.
        • Jerry
          TDKR didn't accomplish its goal? JGL didn't rise and become Batman himself? Batman didn't become more than just a person, a symbol? He didn't inspire his whole city? All these powerful messages didn't accomplish its goal? It made audience members almost cry, tear atleast because they actually CARE about Batman. Unlike the advengers, very very predictable story. And a boring one also.These Advengers children will never learn.
          • Jimmy Love
            Pete and repeat are sitting in a tree pete falls out who's left? Take it away jerry
          • Jimmy Love
            Gawd I hate when movies are popular that I don't like! Gawd!
          • Dominic A
            Here's the FACTUAL answer to both you guys' rambling opinions : Avengers is the FIRST movie of a Trilogy ( and More To Come ! ) ; TDKR is the END . So compare Avengers to Nolan's 1st Batman . Then , in 6 yrs or so , compare TDKR to " Avengers Vs the Universe " ( or Galactus , probably ) . Then we'll see how the Dramas and Humor compare . And who REALLY dies . Or will he/they ??? ....
      • I agree, Avengers was ... a popcorn movie for me, funny sometimes, but that's it, nothing EPIC, the climax scene was seen in other movies also, nothing really new!! I saw it a second time in bluray and I wonder why the big deal with this movie after all? TDKR wasn't perfect as TDK was, but, it was definitely a great movie, billion beyond than avengers. Like it or not
  • The Flowers of War
    Both are magical film. There's no need to compare because every film is different. We should be thankful we are lucky enough to "be there" and witness it.
  • hey guys, can we leave the personal insults at the door?
  • BinaryChaos
    Momma always said...if you've got nothin' nice to say...it's best not say it. Cinemas would be pretty boring if film making all went by a formula or a standard all the time. I'm all for something new and interesting but that comment was kind of like spitting at George Lucas' face for the masterful angles he took with the original starwars movie that revolutionized film making forever.
  • 97point6
    With any luck, the two camps will kill each other off and leave only the Spidey fans.
  • Deception217
    Agreed
  • JBrotsis
    After reading all of the raging, sad comments DC fans are making against the Avengers (which we all know you saw and enjoyed).....you all better not go see Avengers 2 or any of the Phase 2 individual movies being Avengers was "awful", so we don't need to hear you bitch and moan all over again when Avengers 2 comes out.
    • Jerry
      Can't wait, DYING for ant-man....yes a man that is an ant.
      • JBrotsis
        Its sad really reading all of your comments. He's not an ant. He can alter his size to be as small as an ant or bigger than an average huge. Read some comics.
        • Jerry
          Read some comics or go out and get laid? And still can distinguish what's a good movie and what isn't.
      • rocky728
        Obviously you know nothing of the source material
  • dgeet
    In all honestly, the idea of seeing all these characters in one movie masks all the flaws for me but after the 4th viewing I noticed how much of a typical action movie with very poor dialogue, terrible cinematography, terrible costume design for characters (cap, black widow, loki, hawkeye, shield agents), Acting was pretty bad on Hemsworth's part. I agree with Wally 100% with the odd angles; e.g. the weird shot of thor laughing while everyone is fighting and also the awkward shots of actors that really just threw me off from watching the movie the 5th and kept thinking what they could do better
    • Jeff
      I'm suprised you made it there your 2nd viewing. I personally never had the urge to go rewatch it a second time. Because frankly, Advengers is just a meh movie after all. After all that you listed let's add another important factor. This. was. a. comedy. movie.
    • I saw it twice. I enjoyed it but there were things i hated. The beginning is fairly weak with everything especially acting. Caps costume sucked (head mainly), Cinematography was a bit too clean (doesnt have to be gritty). Shield costumes werent so great. It was still a fun movie. Granted they shot this movie in like 2-3 months so they did good for the time they had.
    • ikkf
      I feel the same way. Watched it 3 times in the theater and by the third time I noticed how vacuous the movie is. It goes for too many cheap gimmicks that give it a pandering and manipulative feel.
      • That's because it's a blockbuster film. If I've ever seen a perfect blend of pandering and quality filmmaking it was the avengers.
  • Dr.Sandwhich
    I wonder if he wants some peanut butter with that JELLY....
  • BloodwerK
    Jerry is an idiot. Just wanted to get that out there...
    • Jerry
      And you can't go into details as to why Advengers>Tdkr oh boy do I love kids.
      • BloodwerK
        I'm 41 for your information, and your opinion about the two movies isn't why you're an idiot. It's the way you're going about expressing it. Maybe you should save that kids comment for yourself since, obviously, you're the one who needs to grow up...
  • Wally Pfister. Snigger. Great name!
  • Jack Baure 24
    Regarding TDKR and Avengers Why cant we just accept they bothe had pros and cons but were still great movies for their genres. Action drama and popcorn action comedy.
  • Tempus
    To no surprise the bickering was between DC and Marvel returned after reading the comments. Just to be clear I do agree with Pfster's point, largely due to the fact "The Avengers" has more of a comic-like look in regards to story telling. Meanwhile "The Dark Knight Rises" has a more gritty and realistic tone to its story. On another note; those who have issues with the police versus mercenary fight, you forget guns can be denied thier effectiveness at close range. Batman proves this point when he saves Blake, guns need to be fired into someone to work. Can't fire a gun as easily if your unconscience or brawling with someone.
    • thanks for a level headed comment. Also its one guy pretending to be 2. Jerry/John
  • rock
    Couldn't agree with him more. Avengers lost me the very first scene, i mean whats with the stairs in space with nothing around, i thought i was watching a Syfy special or something. Visually and the score of the film was just awful, only good moments were Bruce / Tony scenes. Of the recent marvel films, personally thought Thor to be the best and Kenneth Branagh would have made a much better Avengers. Comparing TDKR to avengers is the same as comparing TDKR to transformers, these CGI heavy films last only as long as the next CGI breakthrough. Once people get over the fact that the Avengers film was finally made, people will realize TDKR was in the truest sense an epic film, the Doctor Zhivago of superhero films.
    • Ant87
      Great Analogy I agree
  • bruh
    Stop crying everyone. Pfister's one of the best cinematographers working today and I agree with him on this. Probably could have keep it to himself though.
  • it's the nature of the entertainment business.
  • fannypackmilkshakestack
    The Avengers was a wet dream movie,That is why they have those shots. ITS ALL THAT IT CAN BE
  • castingcouch
    I didn't think it was appalling; certainly not Michael Bay bad. But it certainly wasn't a good movie.
  • both of them are very differently toned movies which calls for different cinematography, and it's not good to compare apples with oranges it only brings pointless opinion biased conflict, just like government! 😛
  • Patty
    What's with all the bad juju? Mr. Pfister was gracious enough to come out to my school and have various workshops with the students. He is a very talented and funny man that is extremely passionate about film. The three days he spent here impacted me deeply and I know his visit impacted others as well.
  • mset
    I am a student at Ringling College of Art and Design and Wally Pfister spent 3 days teaching and so stop the negative ‘buzz.' He’s a great teacher, and an inspiring filmmaker. It was unforgettable. How many world class cinematographers give back to that degree? Thank you Wally!
  • these comments are hilarious. people are getting mad at him for sharing his opinion by sharing their own opinions.The irony is overflowing.
  • ntf
    People need to stop believing everything they read. I was at the q&a at Ringling. Wally generously sacrificed his time to come to my school to teach us and show us some of his techniques. His words were taken out of context and even if they weren't, you cant blame someone for having an opinion about something. The masterclass was for educational purposes, not for drama thirsty reporters that just wanna start shit. I feel so lucky to have had the opportunity to meet and listen to someone who is so successful in the film industry.
  • johanna wilkinson
    Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. With that said, he has a right to his opinion. I personally don’t care for the Dark Knight franchise because as an older fan of comics, I miss the fun Batman used to be. That franchise is way too dark and takes itself way too serious whereas The Avengers is just fun. And I think to publicly denounce someone’s work, when you worked on a rival project makes you look shitty and petty. Not cool.
  • Destruct26
    As long as there is one fan out there that enjoys DC & Marvel on Film, there is a truce. I loved the Dark Knight Trilogy and Marvel's Phase One Series. I am that fan. I'm sure I'm not alone, either. 😉

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