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Warner Bros. Seems to Be Struggling to Build DC Cinematic Universe

by
April 29, 2015
Source: THR

DC Comics

If you're excited about the forthcoming, growing DC Comics cinematic universe that will be launched in a big way with Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, we have some potentially bad news. Even though Warner Bros. Pictures has a set schedule for how they plan to release future tentpoles that will be part of the DC Comics universe on film, a report from THR indicates that things don't seem to be going well in the development department. This isn't a surprising revelation considering Michelle MacLaren recently left Wonder Woman due to creative differences and ended up being replaced quickly by Patty Jenkins, but when you hear what the primary problems seems to be, you'll understand the trouble going on right now.

The trade report indicates some big issues with the development of Wonder Woman and Aquaman, which are due out in 2017 and 2018 respectively. With Wonder Woman, the studio reportedly hired no less than five writers to compete for a job on the film. Meanwhile, we already knew Aquaman had two scripts commissioned, but reportedly three scripts were in the works. And here's where the problem comes in: no singular person or brain trust is helping these writers make their film fit in with the overall universe's plans. One source said, "They just haven't been thorough about their whole world and how each character fits and how to get the most out of each writer's time by giving them direction."

Now you might be thinking to yourself that this can only be good for the quality of these films, because this means the filmmakers are being given free reign to tell the story they see fit. But at the same time, if Warner Bros. Pictures and DC Entertainment are hoping to build an interconnected comic book universe on the big screen, there need to be some guiding principles or someone to help shepherd the films so that everyone is one the same page with certain characters, and what might be in store for them when Justice League comes along. It's one thing to bolster creativity among the filmmakers, but you can't build a universe where all these films exist and intertwine without someone steering the ship.

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice

This is exactly what I was worried about when WB and DC started quickly and eagerly following Marvel's model. As someone who hasn't been impressed by Man of Steel or what we've heard about Batman v. Superman, I've remained hopeful that this will work out for the best and that fans and average movie-going audiences will get another great comic book universe on the big screen. But it sounds like no one is in control of where DC's superheroes are going, when really they should have someone in place that can be the DC Comics cinematic universe's Kevin Feige, someone who knows how to handle these characters.

But again, no one is taking the reins of this massive franchise universe. The trade notes that Zack Snyder seems to be at the top of the chain right now, but there's no clear leader of this endeavor. There's plenty of heavy hitters involved, like producer Charles Roven (of Man of Steel and The Dark Knight trilogy) along with president of creative development and worldwide production Greg Silverman and executive vice president Jon Berg, not to mention people from DC Entertainment like president Diane Nelson and chief creative officer Geoff Johns. But no one is stepping up and taking control.

It's fine if the DC Comics cinematic universe is meant to be filmmaker driven, and perhaps they can improve in some areas where Marvel has failed such as having strong villains, more prominent female characters and filmmakers. But as of now, they don't seem to have their ducks in a row, and it has me concerned. David Ayer has a lot of creative control for Suicide Squad, the first film that will follow Batman v. Superman, but beyond that, will Zack Snyder take the Kevin Feige role at DC Entertainment for the films that follow? He doesn't seem like the right guy for the job, since he probably has other aspirations beyond DC, but here's hoping that someone steps up to help sort all this out sooner than later. What do you think?

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Reader Feedback - 118 Comments

1

I hope they can get Snyder to step up for it. He isn't perfect, but I think he could handle it just fine.

OfficialJab on Apr 29, 2015

2

Snyder is a junkie, he always touches his nose. We need Nolan to keep everyone grounded and not allow them transform the DC universe in the kiddie joke universe Marvel is doing. #BringNolanBack

qweqwu on Apr 29, 2015

3

I don't know about him being a Junkie but I like Nolan. But I would rather him work on his own films then have to babysit WB and the DC universe.

Franklin Carpio on Apr 29, 2015

4

I don't think Nolan would be interested in making sure story threads are consistent between a bunch of super hero movies.

OfficialJab on Apr 29, 2015

5

I think you should watch your mouth for Marvel villains, they are badass. And Captain Marvel and Jessica Jones (of Netflix) are on the way you know (and hello, Black Widow's still there...).

Tuomas Lassila on Apr 29, 2015

6

I think what Anderton was saying is that they are all just cookie cutter versions of the same faceless villain. Besides Loki, none of the MCU villains were all that great. Perfectly serviceable in the moment, but lack any real memorable quality.

DAVIDPD on Apr 29, 2015

7

Exactly. Loki is the only substantial, fully-developed villain so far.

Ethan Anderton on Apr 30, 2015

8

Finally someone mentioned him! Loki is the one villain that Marvel truly did well with, film wise. Their hero roster is fantastic, but they've got to bring in the right people to bring in their villians, although I feel Thanos ought to be a good one. Far as DC and WB are concerned, I keep noticing them screwing up too much with the films, it's pathetic! And worse, they don't even listen to the fans. They're like, "We're doin it this way, screw you for wantin it that way"

The Gotham Ninja on Aug 20, 2016

9

Disagree, MCU villains are badass and I'll always remember them.

Tuomas Lassila on Apr 30, 2015

10

You got to admit some of them were stinkers. THOR THE DARK WORLD's villain was pretty bad, as was IRON MAN 2. Go back and watch clips of how many times they say "the bird" in IM2. It is laughable.

DAVIDPD on Apr 30, 2015

11

Well Malekith and Whiplash might be weakest, but they're still badass. Malekith has many awesome moments in the films, and hey, Whiplash' "burd" was hilarious!

Tuomas Lassila on May 1, 2015

12

To each his own.

DAVIDPD on May 2, 2015

13

I feel like it's already an uphill battle for them to try and catch up with Marvel. Man of Steel was the best rendition of Supes on film but I agree with you where it wasn't all that it was hyped to be. They need to get their shit together because if their universe turns out to be chaotic and make no sense then I would rather have Marvel keep on with their stuff and DC/WB stick to making good movies with no universe.

Franklin Carpio on Apr 29, 2015

14

No one knows these characters better than Kevin Smith.

MattPeloquin on Apr 29, 2015

15

The idea sounds great but i dont think people would likr to see the entire justice league sitting in the hall of justice talking for 45 minutes. Id love it though.

Rauncor on Apr 29, 2015

16

I had a feeling this was going to be a hot mess of a universe, but was willing to give it a chance. But it's not looking to good, and even though I am not really sold on the Suicide Squad concept, the talent they brought together for it looks good on paper. Just not feeling like they have put enough thought into how these stories would (or should) intertwine with each other. Say what you will about Marvel Studios, they had a vision and a plan in place and the success of Iron Man allowed them to implement it, with a few tweaks and surprises here and there. I am more intrigued with "smaller" Marvel folks like Ant Man and Dr. Strange then I am with the DC powerhouses of Superman and Batman.

theslayer5150 on Apr 29, 2015

17

The 5 best comic book movies ever made: 1) Superman 2) Batman 3) Batman Begins 4) The Dark Knight 5) The Dark Knight Rises Yeah...DC is really struggling

GandolfsLeg on Apr 29, 2015

18

despite that list being debatable: 1 Marvel's The Avengers BV $623,357,910 4,349 $207,438,708 4,349 5/4/12 2 The Dark Knight WB $534,858,444 4,366 $158,411,483 4,366 7/18/08 3 The Dark Knight Rises WB $448,139,099 4,404 $160,887,295 4,404 7/20/12 4 Iron Man 3 BV $409,013,994 4,253 $174,144,585 4,253 5/3/13 5 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375 3,876 $114,844,116 3,615 5/3/02 6 Spider-Man 2 Sony $373,585,825 4,166 $88,156,227 4,152 6/30/04 7 Spider-Man 3 Sony $336,530,303 4,324 $151,116,516 4,252 5/4/07 8 Guardians of the Galaxy BV $333,176,600 4,088 $94,320,883 4,080 8/1/14 9 Iron Man Par. $318,412,101 4,154 $98,618,668 4,105 5/2/08 10 Iron Man 2 Par. $312,433,331 4,390 $128,122,480 4,380 5/7/10

adam lamonica on Apr 29, 2015

19

In a world where money made was the only criteria, the transformers movies are some of the best ever made

Rauncor on Apr 29, 2015

20

He said DC isnt struggling, they certainly are if they arent making money while Marvel is raking.

adam lamonica on Apr 29, 2015

21

yes because they have only had the nolan batverse and their shared universe has only had one movie till now. Marvel has made more movies and hence more money?

Rauncor on Apr 29, 2015

22

He made a list, I countered with a more telling list. Besides that, having less flicks isnt a saving grace, it is to further detriment DC's case. If DC werent struggling, they would have more movies. If Green Latern was good and/or made money we might have 3 of those already. Same goes for Superman Returns and Catwoman among others. Yes, Marvel has more movies because their first entries were successful (Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Spiderman, 4 total, 3 MCU) whereas DC were not (Nolan Bat, Supes Returns, Catwoman, Green Lantern, 4 Total). Lets not pretend DC hasn't made attempts, they just fail most of the time whereas Marvel succeeds and garners sequels.

adam lamonica on Apr 29, 2015

23

MoS made MORE than every phase 1 Marvel movie even some of their phase 2. You sound like ONLY a Marvel fan and not REALLY a comic book movie fand at all. Even your hero JoshWhedon is looking forward to the DCU. You are the kind of people even your hero Whedon hates.

Michael on Apr 29, 2015

24

The first sentence is false. I actually read more DC comics than Marvel, but that doesnt change the fact that DC has dropped the ball in the live action movie department. I remain hopeful, but this entire article is about how WB is struggling to create this DCCU.

adam lamonica on Apr 29, 2015

25

they aren't struggling at all. we only had one movie and next year number 2 will follow and it looks amazing

Michael on Apr 29, 2015

26

They have had multiple attempts to start franchises that failed epically (Catwoman, Superman Returns, Green Lantern, The Clooney Bat). Yes, MoS did well, and they might be on the precipice, HOWEVER THIS ENTIRE ARTICLE IS ABOUT HOW THEY ARE STRUGGLING.

adam lamonica on Apr 29, 2015

27

um can you EXPLAIN those series of numbers ? lotta commas no denoting of what each set of numbers between each comma , means ;?)) besides the fact that its Marvel 8 - DC 2 .....

Dominic on Apr 30, 2015

28

you cited box office??? HAHAHAHHAHAHAH You must think Furious 7 is better than Schindler's List HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

GandolfsLeg on May 4, 2015

29

You are an idiot. I cited box office because that dictates the SUCCESS of the movies. The struggles of DC are that lack of success in live action flicks. So let me be perfectly clear because you clearly are incapable of reading between the lines; I am not saying any movie is better than another. I am saying that Marvel and DC measure success/struggles via monetary return. In that regard, DC is struggling despite the protest of the post I was replying to while Marvel is not.

adam lamonica on May 4, 2015

30

Superman is not a good movie. I just watched it recently and it doesn't hold up at all. Not mention it's ridiculous. Your 2-4 is good, but it's all Batman. Rises has too many problems in my book to consider that a good film.

Ledd Namahs on Apr 29, 2015

31

you're an idiot

GandolfsLeg on May 4, 2015

32

Oh by all means please explain to me how Superman is a good movie.

Ledd Namahs on May 5, 2015

33

Movie making is a business, and whilst the Dark Knight Series did great business, sadly DCs other recent efforts haven't generated the sort of capital they'd have been hoping for.

Dotpols on Apr 29, 2015

34

Superman II is pretty damn good too. I love Marvel as well but they have a few bombs in their repertoire .

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

35

I am a big fan of both. DC hit it big with the Dark Knight Trilogy and I was a big fan of Watchmen, Constantine, RED etc. but I am loving what Marvel are doing. Their isn't one bomb in the current cinematic universe. That said I loved Man of Steel and can't wait for Batman vs. Superman. I just hope they get it right. I am worried about the tv series' too because I love watching Arrow and the Flash and how they will fit in, if at all.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

36

Yeah, no bombs in Marvels "current" cinematic universe. If you look back to their earlier stuff, it's worse then anything DC has ever done.

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

37

But the article is referring to the current state of both studios. Sure both have had terrible films. DC did create Batman and Robin to which George Clooney apologised and joked he had to payout showtime for every time they showed it.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

38

ahh BUT AJ , steph , we are talking Financially ! , not critically . sorry it;s your bias looking at this . we're going by money made , the Most Important Stat ... THEN you go to Movie Culture ; Marvel characters seem to be dominating there too ... ...the only good thing is that IT'S GREAT for us CB fans ; We Own Hollywood ! they can't make a blockbuster , without Us ...

Dominic on Apr 30, 2015

39

No bombs? I assume you're speaking financially, because critically, most of the MCU's movies have been seriously stung. Iron Man's second and third movies were both slammed by the fans, even though they both made tons of money. Cap's first outing was (inexplicably) not seen as anything like a good movie. Hulk has yet to have a well-received solo movie, and Thor's two movies were paint-by-numbers action movies that virtually gutted the character. That leaves the first IM, The Winter Soldier, and Guardians of the Galaxy, along with the first Avengers movie, as the only MCU movies to not suffer serious criticisms. That's a 40% critical success rate, whatever the box office numbers were. Even Transformers can make money; that doesn't mean the movies are "good".

stephenmonteith on Apr 29, 2015

40

Yes I did mean financially. Thor The Dark World is the one with least amount of praise with 69% on Rotten Tomatoes. As for Iron Man 2 and 3, I myself didn't think they were at all necessary but a lot of people seem to like it. Also on these types of sites like metacritic and rotten tomatoes an overwhelming amount of people approve of them. So far Captain America has been the best character in the MCU. Superman will always be the king of DC and Man of Steel is an awesome movie.

TK on Apr 30, 2015

41

That's not part of the new cinematic universe they're trying to create, which is what this article is about. Try to keep up.

Ethan Anderton on Apr 30, 2015

42

LOL, dude. Get it.

DAVIDPD on Apr 30, 2015

43

Learn how to write

GandolfsLeg on May 4, 2015

44

It's not about DC struggling to make money or having successful films. It's about them seeming to struggle at putting together a cohesive film universe where all these heroes exist together at the same time.

theslayer5150 on Apr 30, 2015

45

Lol, you clearly are a DC fan because there is no other way you can actually believe those are the top 5 comic book movies ever made.

Joe Smith on Apr 30, 2015

46

Actually I like both equally. Name ONE Marvel movie that should be in that top 5. Otherwise STFU

GandolfsLeg on May 4, 2015

47

Both? Lol. Clearly you're use to arguing Marvel v DC. There are other companies who make comic book movies, and you should check them out. But since you want a Marvel movie, I'll give you one. Iron Man. Better than DKR which isn't very good at all, Superman (as much as I love Supes 1 and 2 and unfortunately the horrible 4, lol. It was a fun movie as a kid), and BB. RDJ is absolutely great as IM and just like Ledger in TDK (who was a supporting actor) or Lee in The Crow, RDJ made that movie great. Iron Man is better than at least three of the movies you have in your top 5. I do agree that Batman is better than BB and DKR, and Keaton is a way better Batman than Bale.

Joe Smith on May 4, 2015

48

It seems that even outside of selling comics, DC will STILL be playing second fiddle to Marvel's dominance. DC is a shadow of it's former self. Misguided (or more so NO guidance) in their comics and movies.

RAW_D on Apr 29, 2015

49

Why? Because you read a few bias articles?

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

50

No because DC's track record speaks for itself. And I'm not a DC hater. I liked Man of Steel. The Dark Knight was one of the most incredible cinematic experiences I've ever experienced. HOWEVER, Marvel is a steamrolling train, and shows no signs of slowing. Marvel has a game plan. DC is simply scrambling to catch up. If you want the numbers, I could provide that too. Also any time you have 3 or more screenwriters working on a movie, it usually doesn't turn out great. And anytime directors leave projects, that may also be cause for concern (*cough* Ant-Man *cough*). DC wants to deliver, it just sounds like they have no idea how to do it. I HOPE they prove me wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.

RAW_D on Apr 29, 2015

51

I hated the Dark Knight. But anyway , you say "scrambling". Why? Because Marvel started a connected universe first? You are looking at a snapshot in time. DC left Marvel in the dust for years. Marvel had no plan at one time and what they did offer were films like the live tv version of the Fantastic Four which was so bad they didnt want to air it. At this time, Marvel has a head start. Just let them both even out first before slamming DC because Marvel started first.

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

52

"You are looking at a snapshot in time. DC left Marvel in the dust for years." BUT NOT NOW is the Point .. so in a SENSE , they are " scrambling " to RE-dominate the market ( just for one example DC has one movie studio to produce in ; Marvel has THREE . Whether u don't like the movies those three put out , doesn't matter to that point ) "Just let them both even out first before slamming DC because Marvel started first. " ....Actually as YOU pointed out further up , DC started first .. and GET REAL what BUSINESS in this country do you know would let a competitor get STRONGER ? or allow them even TO get even ? Marvel trying to take back the reins on some of the charcters they LOANED out to Sony to Fox , is an exampe of them trying to maintain the dominant position , in the face of criticism .. Marvel has its way , DC WON'T catch up ...those stats , btw , were posted last year here . the top films of both companies make more , but because marvel took the chance on smaller movies FIRST, they overall make more money .. GOTG certainly didn't help DC 's position any , either

Dominic on Apr 30, 2015

53

"DC won't catch up" is an opinion. Do you know that to be a fact? As I said, Marvel is ahead of the game now, but just because that is the case, automatically everyone tacks on the word 'scrambling" when speaking of the DC cinematic universe. DC is making superhero movies, period. Sure, they want to compete with Marvel but I wouldn't say they are rushing anything. Hell, we have another year till Batman v Superman and the rest of DCs films are even further off. Both entities have had bombs, and if your honest, that can be admitted. Your right, it doesn't matter if I like a film or not. In fact I've disliked a few DC films. Again you are correct by saying "NOT NOW", but now IS a snapshot in time. Wait until the playing field is a bit more equal between Marvel and DC before making true comparisons,

AJ Steele on Apr 30, 2015

54

lol "DC won't catch them " isn't an Opinion , or a fact YET ...It's good Capitalistic Business sense : Don't let your competitors out work you ; or take your market share . as i said IF Marvel can do it ; I didn't say it was locked up already ok let's forget the past ; as You noted the future is bright for US the CB movie fan .. If DC can match Avengers :AOU ( I just saw it ) , their future will be bright too get back to me in 2025

Dominic on May 1, 2015

55

Yes, its an opinion because it is not a fact, just an assumption. The question also arises, what is meant by , "if DC can match Avengers?" Do you mean box office intake or personal opinion of whether an individual likes the Avengers films better than a Justice League film? "Match" is very subjective. Tons of people hated Man Of Steel but a high number loved it enough to watch it repeatedly and it made mega millions. Personal preference comes into play as well. If a person doesn't like DC characters as much as Marvel than they enter the fray with a bias. Also, its unfortunate that some may base the quality of a movie according to box office results. Who cares if an Avengers movie makes more money than a Justice League film? If you like the movie, that's all that matters.

AJ Steele on May 1, 2015

56

One thing Marvel did beautifully in building their universe - which DC has not done yet - is introduce the world to lesser known characters like Iron Man, Captain America (always 2nd and 3rd fiddle to Spider Man or the Hulk) and make them household names. DC has had HUGE success with their mega stars like Superman and Batman, but no success (yet) with secondary heroes like Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, the Flash and Aquaman. If DC wants success in their universe, they need to make us CARE about these "minor" heroes. Once we're emotionally invested, we'll go to the movies to see what these characters are up to.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

57

This is something I agree with. The care and craft into telling stories about everyone prior to bringing them together in one film is what is making Marvel successful. Yes it was a bit of a risk, but it's paying off. And like I stated earlier, they came up with a vision (no pun) and a plan of attack prior to the first Iron Man movie, and worked that plan to fruition. Speed bumps and tweaks not withstanding, their success is allowing even more lesser know heroes get a shot at success, such as Ant Man and Dr. Strange, introducing Black Panther, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, the second of who will be appearing in at least one other movie, and so on. It may be a bit formulaic, but it can't be denied it's working. Even a big risk such as GotG paid off big, because Marvel continues to get filmmakers who know and believe in not only the project at hand, how it fits into the bigger picture, for the benefit of the whole, not one flash in the pan movie. And that is what worries me about the DC approach. Hey, I hope I am wrong, I really do.

theslayer5150 on Apr 30, 2015

58

Go figure, DC! Start something without any vision and this is what happens.

DAVIDPD on Apr 29, 2015

59

They need louis c.k. He can do better jokes

Rauncor on Apr 29, 2015

60

DC should just stick to making quality films and thats where the focus should be. Just because marvel did the shared universe doesnt make it a concrete rule for dc. Itd be cool for these characters to share the universe but it's not a hard and fast rule. What works for one doesnt necessarily work for the other. Dont count out dc just yet.

Carlo on Apr 29, 2015

61

I'd like to see a loosely connected universe. Maybe a trilogy here and a trilogy there, but not this is one gigantic story and pay attention to everything.

redtie on Apr 29, 2015

62

BUT it's what worked in the comic books , in general and these superheroes they are trying to make films on DO all share an interconnected story ONCE they become Justice Leaguers . So DC MUST build to that ...whether doing so makes it look like they are copying Marvel's formula , or not

Dominic on Apr 30, 2015

63

The loose stories concept would be the multiple worlds view. The essence of a previous story is in the next, but there's a defined uncannon. The uncannon would drive the fan boys nuts. The creative juices would also be allowed to flow. Somebody might die for like real in a DC series and never comeback, instead of the Marvel cliche of fake deaths. The next series or whatever the character is back. Multiple characters could play the same hero. I admit this idea would test the limits of fans... and my limits, but the strategy would be different.

redtie on Apr 30, 2015

64

well i just saw Avengers :AOU sorry for a spoiler, but a character dies , in a not-coming- back fashion .. So Marvel has changed their cliche , a bit a defined uncannon ? isn't that actually what fanboys want ? so that they can't write the story in their head better than the writers ? ...since they would have no idea WHERE it;s going ..

Dominic on May 1, 2015

65

we know the Infinity Gauntlet is coming and that Avengers will team with Guardians of the Galaxy , but we have no idea how the movie writers will change the CB "script " .. That is a Good Thing

Dominic on May 1, 2015

66

What is CB "script"? I have read GotG will have it's own movie separate from the Avengers, which would be interesting to pull off.

redtie on May 1, 2015

67

Fanboys want and fear the uncannon! If they can't define a cannon, they can't be complete assholes about a cannon!

redtie on May 1, 2015

68

I was worried when the Green Arrow and The Flash started appearing in new TV series that seems to have absolutely no connection to this cinematic universe. The Flash is a big part of the Justice League and the Green Arrow is in there too. There is already talks of casting the Flash but to this generation Grant Gustin is the Flash and Stephen Amell is the Green Arrow. If they are going to make a shared universe than they need to make sure everything fits, not just half-ass attempt it. Marvel's cinematic universe sits in layers and their tv shows even run in conjunction. There is always these temptations to cast big name actors but I am fine with Grant and Stephen stepping onto the big screen.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

69

I'm pretty sure they've already re-cast a big screen version of the Flash...not sure if they're even considering a Green Arrow for the big screen.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

70

That's sad. Saw some of the articles from Paleyfest in LA where young fans were telling Gustin that he was their Flash. Well bad luck for them I guess as someone else will take over the role on the big screen. Could be a conflict. For so long who was the better Spiderman was being discussed. It will be awkward considering Grant and whomever will be playing the Flash will be doing so within the same timeline.

TK on Apr 30, 2015

71

this article is a huge lie. nothing more to add than that. But i am sure the Marvel fans will not agree. Yeah i said Marvel fans. NOT comic book movie fans that support BOTH.

Michael on Apr 29, 2015

72

there's an opinion , but there' are no factual LIES in the article , stop looking it thru YOUR bias .. Continuity issues are what drove Marvel to make DOFP and reboot the XMen universe, ; it's right to question whether DC can overcome them or if they even seem on a path TO do so .. more to the point , it's Ethan's JOB to do so

Dominic on Apr 30, 2015

73

Um it may be too late to add my two cents in but Days of future past, the X-men stuff in general along with dare devil the movie, electra and the fantastic four is 20th century fox not marvel cinematic studios. Marvel owns those properties but not the film rights same with spider-man in which the film rights are owned by sony

William Jones on Sep 23, 2015

74

Either way, I'm psyched about Bats V. Supes, and how they pull off the universe. They might fuck it up majorly, but I'm still looking forward to seeing those movies....just like I'm psyched about the upcoming Marvel sagas like Capt 3 and Avengers 3.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

75

Personally as a fan of both I am sad to see them fucking it up. Yes marvel has a huge head start on having created their world, and that may make DC look like they are farther behind than they are comparatively speaking, but the argument being made in this article, and I tend to agree with it, is that if they want to catch up to that massive head start they need to start planning ahead for the future of their own cinematic universe, and in order to better accomplish that goal they need someone to step up and be that one guiding voice that can tie it all together in one cohesive universe. The only problem that I see in that is DC comics in general has no single cohesive universe. They tell whatever story they want to tell with out paying heed to what came before or worrying about what effect this story will have on the future of their world. This is what has lead to the overwhelming number of reboots and alternate realities in the DC multiverse, and this is not necessarally a bad thing as it allows the writers much more freedom to tell the kind of stories that they want to tell, but it does make it harder to draw, say a batman fan, with no vested interest in Aquaman, out to spend their money on an Aquaman movie that has no connection to batman. At the end of the day the only way that movies get made is if some studio executive can be convinced that it will make a return on their investment, and having all of your properties tied together in a single universe where the events in one affect the world in all others is an effective means to accomplish this, as the aforementioned hypothetical Batman fan will now have at least some vested interest in Aquaman because something may happen that will affect future Batman films.

Lt_Horn on Apr 30, 2015

76

There is nothing factual in this article to suggest that Warner Brothers is struggling. A bunch of speculation based on someone that is obviously tying to make Marvel better because they started their cinematic universe first. Start enjoying both and remove your juvenile biases.

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

77

This is merely an opinion piece and Ethan is entitle to give his opinions and concerns about the movies and so are you. It's his job to do so. You sound more bias than him reading your other comments. A vast majority of people are concerned because their track record hasn't been that great. When Marvel Studios took control of their IPs things started to look better and they have jumped to somewhere like $700m per movie Average. On the other hand DC movies have had more on screen and have an average of closer to $400m dragged up by the likes of The Dark Knight Trilogy. It is a numbers game in the end, no matter how much you love the movies and the characters, if they don't produce returns than you can say goodbye to the sequels. He has very valid concerns considering how much money they pumped into Green Lantern for it to bomb. Man of Steel had moderate returns domestically compared to Iron Man 3 in the same year.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

78

My words "enjoy both" sounds bias to you? You need to reevaluate . DCs track record has been very good. Marvel, early on had some terrible films. Research on this is important. Yes, the article is full of opinion, that was my point, and that shows the writer of this article's is biased.

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

79

DC's track record may have started alright but they too made some terrible movies. If you look at Metacritic worst reviewed comic movies it has Batman and Robin, Catwoman and Superman 4. Marvel has made terrible decisions too greenlighting Ghost Rider, Elektra, FF and Daredevil. In their current state if you look at it from a business point of view Marvel is currently in a better position. I like what DC is offering on the small screen with The Flash, Arrow, Gotham etc. I just hope it can carry across to the big screen.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

80

Yes, DC has had terrible films but because Marvel is currently ahead of the game cinematically, the constant mantra is that DC is "struggling" or is failing. It's just not true, and anything said otherwise, unless their are facts to present, shows a clear bias. Actually I don't like DCs tv stuff.The Flash looks more like Kid Flash than a man . Warner needs to stop putting all their eggs in one basket with Bat man v Superman. How bout a Black Canary film while we wait?

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

81

I do get where you are coming from and yes it is unfair that a lot of people are judging DC based on an already established film universe. Yeah people have said that about the Flash but I prefer the Flash over Agents of SHIELD. People have been asking why they aren't doing other properties but I am sure they have a storyline that needs this to happen first. We get Suicide Squad too next year.

TK on Apr 29, 2015

82

Marvel, right now is just awesome . However ,DC has characters that havent fully come to light yet on screen. It's a good time for fans of both as I am.

AJ Steele on Apr 29, 2015

83

TK I feel the need to interject some fact in this discussion. The fact is while Ghost Rider Elektra, the FF and and Dare Devil are Marvel properties Marvel sold their film rights to many of their characters in the mid 90's most notably the X-men, FF, Dare Devil, Elektra, and Ghost Rider went to 20th century fox with other companies like Sony getting Spider-Man. Recently Marvel got the rights back to many of their characters like Ghost Rider, Elektra, and Dare Devil which is why there is the Dare Devil Net flix show. 20th century fox still owns the X-men, and FF film rights however. So these early attempts that you speak of while being marvel properties was done by 20th century fox

William Jones on Sep 23, 2015

84

The same goes for DC as well. They are only now starting to get back most of the rights and it wasn't until 2009 that they decided to create DC Entertainment with Warner Bros to create and release their movies. Both companies are doing great now and as a comic and superhero fan it is awesome.

TK on Sep 24, 2015

85

Well I just learned something new. I thought DC/WB was all one entity since WB owned all dc properties. I didn't know DC was actively trying to make its own film division

William Jones on Sep 24, 2015

86

It wasn't Marvel studios that made the terrible films early on that honor belongs to 20th century fox who owns the film rights to many marvel properties. Marvel studios first attempt was Iron man

William Jones on Sep 23, 2015

87

I didn't say "Marvel studios", I said "Marvel", as in the characters on screen.

AJ Steele on Sep 24, 2015

88

Fair enough, I just wanted to clarify since there are people who get it confused, which it seemed from some of the responses was the case. The recent FF debacle is a great example of people getting confused with Marvel properties with the screen rights owned by other businesses (20th century fox) and the properties they both own and have screen rights to. By the way I agree with you on DC's small screen stuff. I absolutely hate the show and wonder if the writers and producers made a deal with the devil to make that show a hit. Everything from the writing, the casting, to the lazy costume designs are just plain terrible! The guy who played Eddie should have been the Flash and Grant Gustin was better suited for a made for tv live action spider man than Barry Allen. I also think DC is shooting themselves in the foot by not allowing continuity between their big and small screen stuff not to mention continuity between their TV shows. You will not see super-girl on the flash or vice versa. Not a good way to universe build In My Opinion

William Jones on Sep 24, 2015

89

Ok, no problem. As to the DC tv stuff, yes, as I said, I cant believe people like it, it's shocking to me. The Supergirl show has potential but then when they get the "real" Supergirl for the films, it just creates a glaring contrast. The Flash looks like a scrawny kid and the costume is horrific. I recently saw the costume for Tornado and it's even worse. Arrow is bogus too.

AJ Steele on Sep 24, 2015

90

IKR??? Why not just get the actress from the Super Girl show for the big screen? For that matter when they were going to do man of steel my thought was why not get the guy from smallville since he was the superman people knew. As for the Flash I wonder of Grant Gustin did some time on the casting couch to get that role. The flash in the comics is lean yes but its a muscular lean like a sprinters build. Grant G is just skinny lean not to mention horribly wrong for the part. Like you I saw the tornado costume and that just plain looked like bad cosplay which is a bit of an insult to cosplay people since I have seen better cosplay outfits. They really should hire the costume designers who do the superhero porn parody movies. No joke, they put the "regular" designers to shame with how good their costumes look. If you doubt me look up porn parody Wonder Woman, Porn parody superman and Quick silver. The costumes look like what movie and TV professionals should have done. I understand that there are a lot of DC fan boys that are hungry for what Marvel has produced, but from DC but what I don't understand is why they take the garbage DC is producing rather than demand quality which includes good casting, writing, and for the love of god, good costume design. I mean really ? They couldn't get that right? I agree with you about the super girl show. It has potential. I saw the pilot. It wasn't bad but it wasn't great either. It was a little heavy handed in the feminism and the romance potential and the costume looked a little cheap but the story and the characters were solid. Arrow seasons 1-2 (most of 2) I liked. It was decent writing and they cast well with Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen. I didn't even mind them using all the batman stuff. Season 3 with all the Flash tie ins I couldn't get into. The show lost it's way for me. Did you see Dare Devil on netflix? What did you think of it if you did?

William Jones on Sep 24, 2015

91

No I didnt see Daredevil but what clips I saw I didnt like. Heavy handed noir. TV Supergirl will not be used, it has already been stated. She has a hot body, that's for sure . Anyway, my hope is that DC /Warner Bros will wise up.

AJ Steele on Sep 24, 2015

92

it doesn't matter wich direction they should go,if batman vs superman does well they will see what they must do. But the fact is they have doubt it does well.And i mean in marvel numbers! I feel personally no connection with wonderwoman or aquaman,but maybe there are in the david Ayer movie great stories ahead! Yesterday seen daredevil on netflix and it was awesome! It's the best i've seen in long time,and i am a big walking dead fan. It's the best marvel has to offer at this moment!

ari smulders on Apr 29, 2015

93

Daredevil is a fantastic show. Really well done, with great characters.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

94

It's amazingly good, and I don't say that often! Di onnofrio gives the entire show a big boost when he steps in! In my eyes a globe winner in the future! That's in my eyes how a villain should be, always in way threatening, and still let his weak side come out in a dialogue. It's amazing like ledger as the joker!

ari smulders on Apr 30, 2015

95

The way I understand it, those five WW writers were all given script treatments and asked to write first acts based off the treatments. So someone at WB is still in charge of the larger story; they just want to see what more people can do with the "small details".

stephenmonteith on Apr 29, 2015

96

yeah this isn't remotely surprising, they're scrambling to attempt to copy Marvel and they got way ahead of themselves and are struggling to catch up, it's embarrassing, they'll never come close to the MCU, not a chance in hell

davidshaw on Apr 29, 2015

97

I know Marvel is way ahead of the game in regards to cinematic universe'. I think though, that DC is failing to realize that they have something great going for them, that if they were to take the time to introduce the characters properly and not rush everything, it could be something really special. Meaning this entire thing wouldn't be a huge joke to everyone, and would in the long run get them more money (which is clearly what they want). At this pace they're digging their own grave.

Danimal on Apr 30, 2015

98

It's like DC have the Geese that lay golden eggs (Batman and Superman) but they don't know what to do with those eggs.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

99

For the record, it's not just DC but Warner Bros too. I have to say, they seem to do quite well with animated films, mostly anyways. But get them doin live adaption on the big screen and everything comes apart.

The Gotham Ninja on Aug 20, 2016

100

Someone call Christopher Nolan to the podium. Whatever happened to him?

timnimbus on Apr 30, 2015

101

I think he wanted to make his own movies and no more comic book films.

TheOct8pus on Apr 30, 2015

102

No Nolan is the goddamn problem. All of this is his fault. He wanted the DK Trilogy separate. He choose the fickle Synder and his obsession with Frank Miller to run the show. This disarray can asll be traced back to him.

razorstar90 on May 1, 2015

103

Why I'm NOT surprised.?!

SAGA on Apr 30, 2015

104

It'd be nice if the DCCu took place in the 30s or 40s, classic.

John Parker on Apr 30, 2015

105

DCCU was always going to be complicated because unlike MCU that just pluck from their rich comic continuity and history, WB has invented brand new versions of these known DC characters (Brooding Supes, Beefcake Joker, even the Dark Knight that Batfleck is based on is non-canon) and as such, they are not being 'guided' by its continuity timetable. Look at Ant Man, Edgar Wright had a great stand-alone script that couldn't fit in the MCU, as such Marvel had to choose the Universe over the Stand-alone to preserve continuity. I'm just waiting to see how DCCU will explain what the, already existing, Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were off doing while Supes and his Krypton neighbours tore up the planet via World Machine and fisticuffs.

Shawlaa on Apr 30, 2015

106

I think that everything was gravy until that horrendous picture of the new Joker. That must've really gave them a lot of doubts to give David Ayer that much control over such a valuable franchise. David Ayer is very overrated. All he did was really write a mediocre script for training day that if it was not for Denzel's performance, would have just been another cop movie. Fury was a disappointment in my opinion, it could have been so much better. And End of watch was saved by the acting of two top notch actors. He's just not a proven filmmaker and I think DC jumped the gun by handing the reigns to him. As for the control factor of the whole universe, that's a whole other ordeal. The Marvel universe in and of itself has a very cohesive body of work. There were always collaborations and stories to pluck from. Also Stan Lee gave his heroes more flaws and made them more human which created more conflict to give better stories. It is going to be quite a task to give DC this same type transparency. That's why the best thing to do is not try to repeat Marvel but just make really great stand alone films. What people tend to forget about DC is that each hero IS its own franchise. They actually have more value than MArvel but no one sees that because of how well Marvel is doing. Only because they did it first. OK thats it. BTW this is the best movie site. You guys rock.

jonnyb61 on Apr 30, 2015

107

And now that there's been a new batman v superman trailer and one for suicide squad, I was wondering if you still feel the same

d@ntê'Salways0n on Jul 21, 2015

108

Both trailers are extremely well edited. The music goes with the visuals almost flawlessly in both, even more so toward the suicide squad trailer. As far as the new Joker is concerned, I dislike the new look. However, I recently read up on a Reddit fan theory that the joker could possibly be Jason Todd. If true that could be very interesting. The subtle appearance of Batman in that trailer also is nice to see. Batman v Superman is somewhat worrysome though. Aside from Holly Hunter's voice which I can't stand, there just seems to be too many characters, and that's without seeing Aquaman and Robin, who are both rumored to be in it as well. But I do have faith in Zack Snyder, just like me being a Knick fan I have faith in Phil Jackson.

jonnyb61 on Jul 22, 2015

109

Well said...I couldn't agree more

d@ntê'Salways0n on Jul 22, 2015

110

What can I say? Really sad that they are doing a Cinematic Universe this only because Marvel is doing. Really sad.

Miguel Garay Boszeta on Apr 30, 2015

111

Already? How would you know this? Or rather....why would you think this?

DarknessFalls133 on Jul 4, 2015

112

Nonsense every word of it. FUCK THIS ARTICLE!

Dave “d1988” Ethan on May 3, 2015

113

truer words have never been said. that trailer for b v s is just awful.

Michael Miller on May 3, 2015

114

I agree with a lot of what this guy is saying, though I disagree with him on Man of Steel--that movie does NOT show the Superman you know and love, it's a rookie Superman before he was really well-established, get over it already!--and I think he's borderline trolling on that ridiculously overused statement that Marvel has "horrible villains." So they're not as memorable as Lex Luthor or the Joker...big deal. That's part of why the villains WORK--they don't have a set blueprint to go by bc of other stories that exist before them, so all the stories that have them are original when shown in the movies. They have a chance to establish themselves in households, and Marvel has done a pretty good job of the portrayals of the villains in the movies, which has made them a lot of money. It's even allowed them to take some big chances on non-traditional superhero movies like Guardians of The Galaxy with some large payoffs. Leave Marvel alone. I like their villains just fine. I also love DC as well, and HATE hearing that they're having problems....this is was I was afriad of, them announcing they have a plan before they actually have a plan.

NightFury Spr on May 11, 2015

115

wenner bros entraitément cv cx3

Clinitol Rdc State on May 12, 2015

117

DC doesn't appear to have an overall game plan, other than: "Make movies, then put the heroes together as a team." They've seen Marvel do it and figured it'd be easy. When B v S sucks and Suicide Squad is a close but not quite what we wanted they'll try rebooting. It's great it's director driven, but there has to be an overall, cohesive vision, so who's providing it?

RMT on Dec 14, 2015

118

turns out you were right about the problems of the dc universe

bluetide79 on Sep 2, 2016

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