Monday Discussion: Would Hulk Be a Good Avengers Villain?
Let's turn our attention to the world of comics today. There's always at least one new discussion on something related to The Avengers every week, but this time it comes with some actual quotes. Screenwriters Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby (who wrote Children of Men and Iron Man) spoke to MTV recently and brought up one of their hopes for the summer of 2011 Avengers movie, which is going to have a hell of a lot riding on it by then. They want to see the Avengers battle a good guy as the villain, namely a big green mutant known as Hulk. Sound like a good idea? Or only the start of a very good idea?
Considering that Hulk has actually fought against nearly all of the Marvel superheroes at some point, this wouldn't be too crazy of an idea for a feature film. I mean, just imagine seeing that Hulkbuster Iron Man suit actually built in real-life on the big screen! Here's what Mark Fergus had to say about the idea.
"I hope The Avengers embraces that," he said of having the Hulk as misunderstood baddie. "You don't want like 10 super-badass good guys fighting together. Where's the fun in that? Let's break it off a little. Friends or colleagues who become enemies is always an interesting thing because you know it's based on love and friendship and that's always the worst thing to have turn bad — is someone you actually care about and someone you actually believe in."
Everything so far seems to be setup to move in that direction, at least in theory. Back in June we actually wrote about this exact idea, in an article titled Is Hulk Destined to Become a Bad Guy in The Avengers?. Director Louis Leterrier explained that they made The Incredible Hulk with an ending that could be open to interpretation, and potentially, allow for Hulk's progression into a villain. "Edward and I, we consciously decided to make the last shot of the movie when he opens his eyes and he smirks at the camera. Is he enjoying it? Is he malicious?" With an ending like that, who wouldn't want to see him become a bad guy?
"I personally like when good-guy characters have to fight each other," Fergus said. "Good guys going against good guys who both believe in an issue is way more interesting than a villain clearly into evil and I like when former friends become committed enemies." I'm not that familiar with the comics to say I agree and the last time an idea like this got explored in a big budget Marvel superhero movie, it didn't turn out that great - Spider-Man 3. But then again, I think a villainous Hulk has more legitimate roots in the comics and in Spider-Man 3 they took that idea a bit too far with the emo Peter Parker and everything.
However, my feelings on The Avengers is that it needs both a villain like the Hulk and a real villain, like Ultron or Kang the Conqueror. I'm already supportive of the idea of turning Hulk into a bad guy, but I can't see him alone holding over an entire Avengers movie. He literally can't be the only villain, the only threat to the world, especially if Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Nick Fury and Ant-Man have all joined forces! All I know is that this movie has a lot to live up to, which means they better get it right. Starting out with Hulk as a villain is definitely a good place to begin. Who are the best villains for The Avengers?
Reader Feedback - 38 Comments
it would be a great idea, and save screen time for developing a whole new 'villain'. The Avengers animated movie has them fighting Hulk for a bit, which is really good! Also, Abomination wasn't dead at the end of Incredible Hulk, maybe he could come back? Plus, the professor guy that created the Abomination (sorry, don't know the actual characters name)had the serum drip onto his head and you could see it growing...he could be a good 'mastermind' villain, who maybe sets the Hulk off on a rampage?
chrisUK on Oct 13, 2008
Yeah great idea. In fact I always just assumed that was gonna be the plot. It would make quite a bang for a first movie and it would set up alot of story for other movies to follow. The cartoon did it well so why not a movie.
Unseen on Oct 13, 2008
Bad idea, the whole point of the Hulk movie this year is Bruce Banner gaining control, it would be a boring weak cop-out to make him the villain especially after he barely handled the abomination - how could he possibly handle the avengers team. Make him the good guy brute
Rob on Oct 13, 2008
Well, the Avengers have been known to stop the Hulk from time to time so it's not a completely far fetched idea. And seeing these titans fight would be pretty awesome. So, in my humble opinion, I think it would make for a great movie that both comic book fans and people who have just heard of the Avengers. But there is also the question of what other super villain could the Avengers take down? Ultron? Zemo? Unless some of these guys are introduced soon, I think the only way The Avengers could go would have to be The Hulk. But then again, this is only in my opinion.
Josh M on Oct 13, 2008
Alex, why must you always mention Spider Man 3 in almost all of your posts. We know that it did not turn out so hot. so why must you keep mentioning it. Like if you can, could you just stop mentioning the movie. I am not mad at you, I am just a little annoyed by it. You always refer to spider man 3 being this and that. Just let it go man. Let it all go. I do not know if this post made sense or not. But, all I am trying to say here is that could you please stop referring to Spider Man 3 on every Comic Book Movie Headline. I just had to get that off my chest, but anyways. Have a good day, I love this site.
Jay Selis on Oct 13, 2008
The Hulk shouldn't be the dominant villain. However, he needs to lose control and become a serious threat at some point of the story, because we all know we want to see Ironman's Hulk-Buster suit.
vegeta on Oct 13, 2008
I would have to say its a good idea, cause Bruce Banner is gaining control and a certain General doenst like that. So that is where Tony Stark comes in, because he has not idea about the situation. All he knows is that there is some big green guy kicking ass all over the place. So to have the Hulk a villian would be cool. But they are two diffrent people really. You got Bruce who the Avengers could keep an eye on, and then The Hulk who The Avengers would have to fight becuase it's not Bruce. Get what I am saying. I really think if they stick with these movies and make them cross over and keep it withing the "comic style" crossovers then cool. Like dont have superheroes just show up and walk behind people or walk and just say hi. If they are going to do it, have like the X-Men fighting someone while the F4 swoop in and help. I have high hopes for the next 4 years.
AllmightyKeim on Oct 13, 2008
From wikipedia... "The first adventure features the Asgardian trickster god, Loki, who seeks revenge against his adopted brother, Thor. Using an illusion, Loki tricks the Hulk into destroying a railroad track, after that he then diverts a radio call by Rick Jones for help to Thor, whom Loki hopes will battle the Hulk. Unknown to Loki, the radio call is also answered by Ant-Man, the Wasp and Iron Man. After an initial misunderstanding, the heroes unite and defeat Loki. Ant-Man states the five work well together and suggests they form a combined team — with the Wasp naming the group the Avengers. The original members are known as the "founding members," and courtesy of an Avengers Charter are responsible for the good name of the team. As a result, their wishes regarding the direction of the team are given additional weight and deference. The roster changes almost immediately; by the beginning of the second issue, Ant-Man has become Giant-Man and, at the end of the issue, the Hulk leaves once he realizes how much the others fear his unstable personality. Feeling responsible, the Avengers try to locate and contain the Hulk (a recurring theme in the early years of the team), which subsequently leads them into combat with Namor the Sub-Mariner. This would result in the first major milestone in the Avengers' history - the revival and return of Captain America. Captain America joins the team eventually becoming field leader. Captain America is also given "founding member" status in the Hulk's place." Drop Namor and we have a winner. Cap is revived to help the unorganized team against the Hulk, bringing them all together in his leadership.
Viper on Oct 13, 2008
I think the Hulk would make for a good twist/villian in the Avengers movie in addition to say ...Ultron...since Ultron is an AI created by Hank Pym (Ant Man), it would be quite easy to introduce the 2 into the flow of the stroy
madstick on Oct 13, 2008
(The reason Spider-Man 3 and same goes for X3. Is that they took something that was working extremely well and then dropped the ball...no...not just drop the ball they popped it and threw it into the ground! We don't want that to happen again.) That said I think a single movie can't hold all that is the origins of the Avengers. Loki should be the main villain manipulating several villains much like in the comic. Only instead of the Masters of Evil they'ld work more like terrorist cells with Loki pulling the strings. Loki's involvement of course would be the reason Thor would join the Avengers. Ezekial Staine would be Iron Man's villain, The Red Skull would make Cap motivated, an Ultron prototype for Ant-Man to play with, and Abomination to counter the Hulk. loki could easily frame the Hulk at the same time using Abomination to reek havok, turning the rest of the Avengers against the Hulk. Oooh!...and manipulate the Pym's dysfunctional relationship further dismantellng the Avengers. To bad Hawkeye isn't going to be in the movie.
Chris R. on Oct 13, 2008
About Cap is that I would love to see the end of his movie: Cap being thrown by the exploding missle and falling into the artic waters. While a closing statement by Bucky claims that when America is in need he will be be there to be it's captain. Roll credits. Then on a medical table a soaked Cap lies dead but his eyes open. The first thing he sees is the American flag and the S.H.I.E.L.D. emblem. Then he hears Nick Fury's gravely voice saying "Steve Rogers your country needs you." The begining of the Avengers movie could introduce him as "the man out of time story" like in the Ultimate Avengers animated movie.
Chris R. on Oct 13, 2008
How about turning hulk good mid-way thruw to fight the real Galactus since Fox screwed him up.
Joker on Oct 13, 2008
the avengers first got together to take on both the Hulk and Namor after Loki tricked the Hulk into believing that the Avengers were mocking him, so i say YES! the Hulk would make a great fight for the Avengers! superheroes fight each other all the time, i say go for it, the Blonsky Vs Hulk fight in The Incredible Hulk was nothing but a prelude to Captain America Vs. the Hulk anyway!.
The Delightful Deviant on Oct 13, 2008
Right. So basically you're asking "would it be a good idea to make Ultimates 1: The Movie?". If so, then hell yes. =D
Will on Oct 13, 2008
I think he would be a good starter Villian. Have them start out the movie chasing him with a big battle scene. Then have him join the team when they realize they need him to beat the movies big Villian.
Tyler on Oct 13, 2008
Do it like they did Ultimte cartoon 2 years ago. The hulk crushed all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REAL6 on Oct 13, 2008
@ Tyler - That would be Ultimates 2. 🙂 It's pretty much exactly that plot over Ultimates 1 and 2, go and read them and you'll see what I mean. It's pretty obvious that the Avengers movie will borrow heavily from Mark Millar's Ultiamates series.
Will on Oct 13, 2008
Starting out with Hulk as a villain but he should end up helping the Averngers and becoming kind of a good guy at the end.
hulk smash ur crotch on Oct 13, 2008
Tony Stark sees this as his first official 'assignment towards peace' so he's very focused and determined even more so this time around. The Hulk is his target and he plans to take him down. Since Bruce Banner appears to have firm control over the Hulk, he can now successfully 'aim' Hulk towards an enemy, but as the character goes, there are deep layers of his tormented rage(elude to Red Hulk?yes?no?stupid?). Obvious battle scenes will be intense and incredibly badass. I assume/hope we'll still get some of Downey's one-liners, plus Hulk will be laying some mass destruction. I would say it could be either a one-on-one with Banner/Stark, with some major disagreement that they have considering their 'roles' - I'm shaky on that one I guess. Another scenario, which I explained above, would be as Iron Man is sent out to either: destroy hulk and return him, return him to general thunderbolt, or try to convince Banner to join their forces(brings him to Fury). The strongest part of all of this creation process would be is the adaptation that comic book stories allow when transferred to film - or more specific - a summer hollywood blockbuster. I would expect nothing better than to see the Hulk unleash his rage on an opponent that will able to get back up after it - and deliver a good deal of damage right back. But we've also seen what Hulk has done to Stark Industries toys before. Then the plot will lead them towards a more formidable enemy. Bruce then gets his shit together for some reason and joins the Avengers(maybe his girl dies or something). I donno, you fill in the rest.
Nick Sears on Oct 13, 2008
Maybe Banner powertrips and does stuff he regrets and wants to kill himself in the Arctic - you see where I'm going with this? Just when he's about to kill himself (- or to find his 'destiny') and comes across a shield frozen in ice...
Nick Sears on Oct 13, 2008
I think having Hulk as a threat, not necessarily a villain, would be a great way to go. In terms of villains, the Avengers movie has a lot of choices, including some that are already tied into the solo movies like: Mandarin and the 10 Rings, the Leader, Loki (likely), Red Skull (likely), etc. They could use any of those guys or some classic Avenger villains like Ultron, Kang the Conqueror, High Evolutionary, Masters of Evil (with a more realistic take, and name tweaking possibly). Or they could go with an international terrorist organization like HYDRA, perhaps with a big villain heading it. There are a lot of options here. The main thing I think is that they try to ground it in as much realism as possible since the movies seem to be taking a more realistic feel to them. And I think with SHIELD being involved that's very possible.
Daas on Oct 13, 2008
It seem like a cop-out in a way, The Hulk film was about Banner coming to terms with the Hulk and gaining control, there are better ways of making this film. The Hulk, Ironman, Captain America, and Thor, are probably the best team, hell I prefer Galactus as the main villain (iF ONLY). But I'm still unsure about Thor, I'm for the Avengers, and all but since Thor is there, the possibility of another enemy beside the Hulk is not only a good idea, but necessary. Think on it, and get back to me! Or not, I really don't mind, but something original is needed for The Avengers to be as kick-ass as the people expect it to be, so don't disappoint the fans, without them (and me) you are nothing.
Xerxex on Oct 13, 2008
Ohhhhh yes! loved that last shot of the hulk with norton's malicious smirk. He'd make a great villain.
rblitz7 on Oct 13, 2008
Don't forget, the Hulk set up for the Leader to come into the a future movie. We could have a Leader controlled Hulk, battling the Avengers, who don't really want to do serious damage to Bruce Banner... But, the Hulk is just out to crush everything...
nate on Oct 14, 2008
@ #24 Now that would make for a very interesting twist. Instead of making a Hulk sequel, they just stick The Leader into the Avengers movie...but if this happens then the Hulk problem should be resolved in the first act so we have a better villain than The Leader for all the Avengers to take on.
Viper on Oct 14, 2008
HULK = BOORING!
werdnafaz on Oct 14, 2008
Hulk won't be the main villain as this is going to be based on "The Ultimates" i'm sure. He's going to be a side thing, and ends up helping in the end.
Darunia on Oct 14, 2008
boy, you all sure are a bunch of opinionated fucks arent ya?!?!
Alec Baldwin on Oct 14, 2008
Hulk is a great idea for a villain but he can't be the main one, he can't create enough chaos for an entire superhero team to have to assemble and stop him. Also, since Bruce has gotten more control of the Hulk, the degeneration back into an angry beast has to be plausible and gradual.
SlashBeast on Oct 14, 2008
why not FING FANG FOOM?
DDOT3 on Oct 14, 2008
I think they should save the Hulk as a villain until the end of the series of Avengers movies. It would be a good way to set the mood for a series of Marvel Civil War movies 😉
Cody on Oct 14, 2008
I think having the Hulk as the opening conflict of the movies first act would start things off explosively, tying the different marvel franchises together effectively. Once Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Hank Pym/Wasp have teamed up to contain the Hulk, who is rampaging due to Loki's influence, that could bring Thor into the picture. At this point, since neither the Thor nor the Cap movie are surefire bets, it's all speculation. I think once those two are given more momentum, we'll be able to know how an Avengers movie could take shape. In any case, having the Hulk as a "guest villain" early on in the movie is an excellent idea, true to the comics, and also smart to tie in Marvel's separate movie franchises. Ultimately, once the Avengers unite to go at the Hulk, they need to go against something bigger: Ultron. Perhaps Loki is an ever present villain, tricking the Hulk into his rampage, then moving on to Hank Pym, manipulating him into creating Ultron - establishing his motivation for correcting/undoing his mistake.
djo on Oct 15, 2008
this movie has got to be about 3 hours long or maybe Lord of the Rings type triology for it to work.
Don P. on Oct 15, 2008
I totally agree with #1. The previous movies are a set-up for this one so a set-up villian is perfect.
Ryan on Oct 15, 2008
The Avengers will battle the Hulk, then Hulk will join them to fight The Destroyer.
UhOhChongo on Oct 23, 2008
Honestly, ... ..they SHOULD bring the HULK back as a (misunderstood) bad guy. Every one saw that Bruce gained control of the power,but imagine that in the process of his training to completly control it they bring in IRON MAN andjust make the hulk seem bad or ass a threat! IS this what the directors and writters have in mind? All i know is that i can't wait to c how they bring CAPTIAN AMERICA into all this madness! Oh...and as far as those hidden eggs(fitures) of Captian America in THE HULK and IRON MAN movies is just their scam to get us to buy the DVD's! .....one last the, who wouldn't wan't to c a movie that begins with HULK SMASHing things, i mean come on.........
Spencas on Oct 26, 2008
Are the writer's of this movie comic fans, because so far I don't like where they're going with this. Some of the suggestion here are much better.
John on Dec 3, 2008
If you play off Hulk being the bad guy you could also add loki in there. You could have Loki manipulating the hulk into being the villian. I think that's how the avengers went down originally but i'm not sure. However, they'd have to introduce Loki in the thor movie (which they probably will)
Jack on Jan 12, 2009
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