Tuesday Discussion: Where Do You Want to See Superman Go?
Instead of just reporting this news today, I thought I'd open it up to some discussion, since that seems the logical conclusion anyway. Warner Brothers and DC Comics have encountered a dilemma with Superman. Christopher Nolan took DC's other popular character, Batman, and turned him into a huge success, as well all know. But in 2006, right after Batman Begins the year before, Bryan Singer's Superman Returns not only didn't perform as well as they had hoped it would, but most didn't like what Singer did with the character and the story. That left them in a tough spot - continue with Singer or dump his series and start from scratch. Most people are crying out for another Superman, but they're not sure what to do. We've provided numerous updates on the Superman situation, but Anne Thompson from Variety has the latest.
She reports in a brief update that Warner Brothers is stuck as well. "Today I was told that it is a priority at the studio to find the right direction and if Bryan Singer is willing to do that, fine, but if he gets in the way, he may not stay on the project." She goes on to say that the are no writers and there is no script in development, but that they really want to figure it out. "It might be better to start from scratch," is what one studio exec told her. That's unfortunately all they've got - they don't even know what to do, which is why I want to ask the fans who know the character the best. Like our contest for the Dark Knight sequel, I want to hear your thoughts on what kind of Superman we should see and where he should go.
If only Christopher Nolan could do the same for Superman that he did for Batman, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Prominent comic book writer Mark Millar has been campaigning for a Superman idea that he believes would be incredible. Back in July his update received quite a bit of buzz because he said he was working with a big producer and big director and writing his own Superman script. "This has to be Superman for the 21st Century, keeping everything we adore, but starting from scratch and making the kids love it as much as the 30-somethings." I have a feeling Millar's idea for the Superman reboot would be amazing, possibly just want Warner Brothers would want to see for this character. He just needs to finish it up and make sure it gets into the right hands with plenty of encouragement behind it.
So we've got Mark Millar's "21st Century Superman" as well as a continuation of Bryan Singer's Superman Returns story on the table so far. What else is there? Is there some gem of a Superman story hidden amongst the character's 70 year history? Or is there some writer who can come up with something new and refreshing on his own inspired by some of the best comic book stories (like David S. Goyer and Jonah Nolan did for Batman)? What would you want to see Warner Brothers do with Superman?
Bryan Singer had the scope right, but make superman a bit older than Brandon Routh, return him to his American roots, and set him against Darkseid or Brainiac. And keep mentioning Gotham City in the background.
vegeta on Aug 19, 2008
I want to see them bury Superman 700 feet underground. I hate him. An invincible man who's only weakness is a rock that his home planet is made out of...that's a true pussy
Chris W. (Co. Springs...) on Aug 19, 2008
Superman is a tough character to write. Even in the comics he's referred to as a "boy scout"--can you imagine basing a multi-million dollar movie around that? No one really wants to see a movie about "truth, justice and the American way", we want our heroes flawed and dark, which is the opposite of what Superman is. Writers (and DC) are unwilling to change Superman to fit that mold, so the character remains hopelessly corny and outdated. People will still see any Superman movie because the character is so iconic, but most of us simply can't relate to him. I think it ALMOST impossible to create a really good Superman movie, but they are more than welcome to prove me wrong.
NadaNuff on Aug 19, 2008
Firstly I don't think Christopher Nolan could do for Superman what he did for Batman. Superman is an actual superhero with super powers and that does not tend to allow for the type of realistic view that Nolan likes to do. Secondly the last movie was horrid. I went to see it just because it was Superman and the God/Jesus imagery was just overbearing. I mean we get the fact that he has powers and watches over Metropolis, but the falling to the earth like on a cross, the empty hospital room like tht tomb, being in space looking over us like GOD. I mean enough already. What makes Batman so great, and I think the bigger draw, is the fact that yes he has lots of money but he is just a human being. No special powers, just science and gizmos that he uses in conjuction with his training to fight evil. That can be set in reality and cause the audience to feel like "My God, this could actually happen", and I think that is what Noal does best. Looking at the history of Superman it has always gone through ups and downs and we may potentially be in a down right now. I also think that the last movie did not help to bring it out of the down period. That said if I was the head of Warner Brothers I would do the following. Plan on creating one last superman movie. A dark version of the Doomsday novel. Kill off Superman at the end of it and see how the movie does. If it does well create the sequel with all for incarnations of him, and at the end bring the real superman back in the black and silver. I think the new generation needs a new Superman and that may do it.
CK on Aug 19, 2008
I'm not a comic book reader (I just read watchmen a few weeks ago and that was my first 'comic book' I've ever read), but I love Superman. I saw the 3-D IMAX movie twice in 2006. However, they need something new. Superman Returns was the same as the first Superman basically. Come up with a new story, there's so goddamn many to choose from. Like Alex says, Superman has been around for 70 years so why do they have to repeat the same story? Superman Returns made $200,006,305 at the box office domestically (rotten tomatoes), people will watch whatever they put out, but give us a new story for Christ sake!
G-Spot on Aug 19, 2008
The only time I really came to like Superman was in Kill bill 2, when Bill was talking to The Bride about Superman's true identity and explained the whole disguise thing. That really put the character in a whole new perspective and made it more likeable for me. But besides that I really don't see this getting any better than Superman 2, that was the only good movie for this character.
Diego on Aug 19, 2008
Superman is a very difficult character to do in the right way. The best Superman stories have to involve an assault on his moral character, pushing him to the breaking point and then watching as he not only saves the day (usually by doing something mind-blowingly huge) but also retainins his beliefs. Superman is about having to do things the hardest way possible because you believe that's the right way (even if everyone else doesn't). Villains are also a problem for Superman so I think that someone should take the image of a villain from the comics and rewrite the backstory or even create a combination like Absorbing Man in the Hulk movie. If the character is good people won't care if they adhere to the comic 100%. Look at the Joker, no drop into toxic chemicals this time around and I didn't hear anyone complaining as they left the theater.
Zac on Aug 19, 2008
I think that the whole 'boy scout' issue could be where it's at in terms of the realistic, inner conflict part of the story. Superman is nigh invincible physically, so concentrate on the mental, psychological aspect. Just how hard IS it to be a boyscout in this day and age? How do you, as a vastly superior (physically) being not get involved in the screwed up modern world? How would Superman deal with Georgia/South Ossetia, Iran, Iraq, the War on Terror, etc? Those are complex issues, who does he side with, how does he keep both justice and mercy in those situations? How does he manage to day after day be a symbol of hope and freedom to a scared, misled, disillusioned world? There's so much potential to be had with that that Singer never touched in the last movie. Secondly, change Luthor. Since the '80's run of Superman movies, the Lex Luthor character has been done so much better, in animation, and live action. Luthor is one of the richest men in the world, a cunning business man and should be a genius villain. What we got instead is some wig wearing goof ball who marries his way into money and half ass schemes. Kevin Spacey could make a great Lex Luthor, if he was given the right direction.
Rogue on Aug 19, 2008
I agree with Diego about the Kill Bill 2 thing: Tarantino makes an excellent point there. I've always thought that they were approaching Superman from the wrong angle. As much as I love the Donner Superman movies, they were done at a time when filmmakers were limited by their budgets and crude special effects. The problem with Superman is that he is nigh invincible. How can audiences relate to something like that? Simple: you bring Superman down to our level. That's why the originals worked so well: you got to see Clark Kent trying to make his way through life with these phenomenal powers. That's why Smallville works so well. That's why the Brian Singer film flopped. His Superman just came off as a brooding emo kid with superpowers. I'd like to see the Superman we all remember: kind, boy scout-ish, friendly. Someone that you'd have to be an absolute tool not to just adore and respect. He's not Batman. He's a bright shiny beacon of hope. Then, beat the ever-living hell outta him. Put him up against a villain so powerful that Superman has to pull out all the stops to defeat him. I want to see a world spanning bare knuckle brawl-to-end-all-brawls. I'd say Doomsday, but I really don't think we're ready to go through the whole "Death of Superman" arc (as much as some people would like to see him dead). Give it a classic storyline: good vs. evil, an unstoppable force, unbeatable odds, that sorta thing. Make Superman really have to use his brain AND his fists to get through it. I think filmmakers have been avoiding supervillains because they don't want to turn it into a lame action-fest, but every comic book movie needs a little action here and there. Superman 2 had supervillains (Terrance Stamp ftw!) and look how well that worked out. Also, ditch the kid. Don't explain it, don't reference it. Just hit that replay button and pretend he never existed.
Peter on Aug 19, 2008
The only Superman that owns is In the Animation. Those fucking rock!!!
REAL6 on Aug 19, 2008
I want to see a superman film where you see, superman actually hit somone as hard as he can and has a decent fight scene... I watched superman returns and enjoyed it but expected more. Lex has had his day in the movies, its time for a darkseid or doomsday to give superman a run for his money or even general zod (Just so i can hear Kneel before zod again lol!!!!) Love the site by the way
Andy K on Aug 19, 2008
I don't have a specific idea of what the next Superman movie should be about. But I have a friend who made - what I felt - was a very astute observation about Superman Returns. His complaint was that it was pretty much two hours of Superman lifting shit. He lifts a plane, he lifts and island... he lifts shit. They couldn't have him... I dunno, divert the path of some rolling lava from an erupting volcano? It's tough to find someone that is a physical threat for Superman and I think that's why Superman II worked so well. Because you have the villains from The Phantom Zone with all of Superman's powers and none of his moral character. Someone already addressed it, but the greatest battles Superman fights are those of the mind. If you can't find a physical threat (like Doomsday) for him to go toe-to-toe with, you have to find someone that is going to test his morals.
Tom Brazelton on Aug 19, 2008
One thing that the show 'Smallville' touched on but wussed out on getting in depth about was the idea that Jor-El's plan for Supes was to be a conqueror rather than a saviour. It was touched on in the animated 'Doomsday', too, the replacement Superman's idea that we don't know how to govern ourselves anymore, and that he's there not just to fight for truth, justice and the American way, but to actually enforce it. I know this is the same way that TDK went, but if they're going to go back and do an origin story then they need to establish what Superman's moral and physical limits are, and establish how he discovers his own limits. And bring back Zod.
John Madden on Aug 19, 2008
I totally agree with CK. Kill Superman in a Doomsday movie, and then follow it up with a sequal that introduces the other incarnations of Superman! I think Warner should make the movies concurrently though like so many other titles have done before.
Corb on Aug 19, 2008
WB need to stop focusing on Superman. Make a villain that is so horrible, so intelligent, and seemingly unbeatable that Superman cant help but look "super". Also, I understand the concept with Brandon Roth was that Superman is genetically strong so he doesn't have to be physically built like Arnold". However Singer never sold that idea. At this point regrettably dump Roth and find someone who can act first and fits the suit second. Oh, one more thing put Louis in the background like Nolan did with Rachel.
Mike J on Aug 19, 2008
I agree that Superman is a difficult character to write for. How can you continue to invent challenging foes for an almost invincible character? The real story of Superman comes from the fact that he can do almost anything, yet he remains alone. A being who is almost invincible against any physical harm is still so vulnerable to loneliness. He can't be a normal human being because he isn't a human being at all. He is an outsider, and he knows it. Humanity superficially treats him as there hero, but there is the implicit understanding that he is still not one of us. He also has to constantly wrestle with the disconnect between his dueling personas. He can't fully commit to being Superman and maintain close, emotional relationships. The ones he loves will be in the greatest danger. But, he also can't fully commit to being Clark Kent, because he understands the responsibility that his power gives him. To deny this would be to put all of humanity in harm's way. He can't neglect either persona without humanity being harmed. And, even though he isn't one of them, he remains their protector. They may see him as an outsider, but he continues to fight for them, even though it costs him a great deal. Jor-el's dialogue in Superman: The Movie (and reused in Superman Returns) establishes this theme very well. And, any future Superman movie should have this at its core.
David Simms on Aug 19, 2008
Here's what. Returns was a unnecessary, see, Lex Luthor, real estate. Really? That's the pitch for the villain? ahahaha. And the whole kid thing was horrible, kate bostwort was miscast, just a huge fail. Superman is a rich character with lots of villains, and if they can use all these villains in Batman, why not to the same with Superman? And superman needs to be fallable. He's not god, and as such he must show weakness, he can't save everyone for starters. Working within the main theme of the Dark Knight "Gotham needs batman, even if they don't realize it" would be fairly easy. And that's where the JLA would enter. See, superman starts "failing", imagine a situation where instead of having to save one plane, he has to save two planes, and one of the plane breaks in half, etc etc, and now he can't save everyone, so some people die, one of the planes causes large destruction in a area of the city, JLA comes and they save people from fires etc etc. JLA starts gaining status as they do more than Superman can alone. Say it's discovered who planned the whole plain incident, tracks back to some villain in Gotham City, Supes goes to Gotham and kicks the living crap of the dude until he spills out who are the original interested in the deal (Important people were on the plane), and when he's about to kill the villain out of vengeance and anger Batman comes up etc etc, they talk about morals, Superman is not himself. Anyway, it all tracks back to a group in the middle east, located in a war zone, superman goes after him, sees the leader, there's killing happening around and the leader makes his case that superman is not god and he can't decide who lives and dies, etc etc, he orders the execution of 10 prisoners some distance away, superman flies to stop it and he can't, he doesn't manage to reach them faster than the bullets do. Superman picks the leaders of the groups and drops them at the door of the UN building, badly wounded, debate surrounds about the rights Superman has, as he is has no official right to act on behalf of governments, etc etc Superman goes to a church and sees a priest, superman cries, realizing that he can't save everyone, and that maybe people don't need him as much as he believes they do. Priest says he's not god, and he can't save everyone but that he can make a difference, and that he makes the world a better place etc etc. Superman before leaving thanks the priest and tell him to call for him when in need of help, the priest asks if he could cure cancer as he is sick, superman floating says that he doesn't know if he could but that he will never find out because if ended up being able to do it then people would always expect miracles from him, to which the priest replies, looking at supes flying "But is it not a miracle, that which you are already doing" bla bla bla. JLA is America's favorite bunch of heroes, JLE plans start being laid out, people start believing they don't need superman. And then that's where Doomsday comes in, parallel story happening, arrival, etc etc. He casts destruction upon a small town, JLA shows up, they get their asses kicked, etc etc, superman is needed, clash of titans, everyone is watching, the fight is taken to metropolis, half of metropolis becomes ruins, superman dies, there's a funeral, etc etc. And at the end people truly realize how much they loved and needed superman. This is all stuff taken from the books for the most part, it would give a kickass superman movie, it would be launch platform for JLA, and it would allow the much anticipated moment of Superman and Batman on the same screen happen, even if only for brief moments. I would pay 10$ to see that, i would buy the Blu Ray, and i would eagerly anticipate the sequel. But that's me, i like stories about heroes that are challenged.
Darunia on Aug 19, 2008
Darunia on Aug 19, 2008
The battle with Doomsday would rock, as Doomsday is like a raging dog, he causes destruction wrecklessly, like the Hulk, and Superman would have to fight him and save people at the same time.
Darunia on Aug 19, 2008
I agree with comment #4...start at the end...the death of superman is the only thing that people will be interested in...if it's not going to be a dark movie...it might as well not be made at all
Nick on Aug 19, 2008
I think they should drop Singer & go with someone that can put an edge to the whole story. He TOTALLY dropped the ball with the last movie!! Singer had a great actor playing Lex... if only he had let him loose to truly be evil, like Spacey was in Se7en. Instead he made him do his best Gene Hackman impersonation. Hackman was good for the 70's & 80's, but Lex is way more of a dark character in the comics, cartoon & even on Smallville. I think Lex is still a great villian for Superman, if he would just knock off all the dreams of being a "Real Estate Tycoon". I mean come on! Lex had at his disposal all of Superman's technology & the best thing he could come up with was, "lets make a huge uninhabitable rock in the ocean & sell it for real estate." You don't think a true evil genius would find a way to create an alien weapon that could actually challenge Superman and achieve world domination? What this last movie lacked also was the depth of emotion that Christopher Reeve brought to the first one, and that's not knocking Brandon Routh. That comes from the writing, it was just trying to piggy-back on all the hard work of the first & second movies and hope that would be enough. Obviously, I could go on, but I won't... Pull Singer out of there. FAST!
Doza on Aug 19, 2008
I think the current Johns run in action comics with Brainiac would make a cool movie. Focus on the sci-fi aspects of Superman. Take some bits from the All-Star version as well. There is a load of stuff in the comic world for Superman so not sure why so many people are saying you couldn't make a decent film for him. Give him a big bad to fight such as Brainiac, Doomsday, Metallo etc, include some manipulation by Luthor, chuck in some red kryptonite so Supes tries to take over the World, have him fight that off, ditch the kid, have some Daily Planet bullpen repartee with Lois, Cat and a few others, have him saving people from a few natural disasters, maybe have Zod break out of the Phantom Zone or have Superman get sucked into it, introduce Supergirl at the end, make Jimmy Olsen a cool character as in the All-Star version, have references to the various DC cities and heroes. Get Joss Whedon to write it.
Phil on Aug 19, 2008
they need to leave the Reeve's movies in the past, not to mention Superman has a whole rogues gallery other than Lex Luther, that's why Batman is more interesting than the Superman movies. Batman has since had the Penguin, Riddler, Mr.Freeze, Poison Ivy, Two Face, Catwoman, granted the Joker twice as opposed to Lex Luthor going on 5 times now!.
The Delightful Deviant on Aug 19, 2008
First thing that surprised me with superman returns and that people never mention is that it's supposed to be after superman 2 but lois doesn't know that superman is clark which is a huge mistakes that amde everything crappier. Did those guys even see the reeves movies??? were they high? WTF?? also lois was such a bitch in the movie and kate bosworth was useless, not to mention that she was absolutely not attractive. ok rant over. now I'd really love a superman movie, not a bold and the beautiful episode. that means forget about superman having a boy, let lois be bitchy but in a reporter way not a whore who makes her future naive husband think he's a father. oh btw remember that lex luthor is not a prostitute for rich women, he's a genius, evil, rich son of a bitch who hates the "dumb" humans and wants to be a god. jesus... when I think about it, who's the retard at WB who approved superman returns script???? It's actually very easy to make a superman movie, if you think it's hard to write a superman movie that's because it's not in the writing, it's in following the legacy and just thinking of great action sequences where a super hero saves the day and makes kids want to fly. not hard at all, even a 5 year old would make a better movie than that stupid superman returns piece of shit.
adialtor on Aug 19, 2008
Lois's memory was wiped at the end of superman 2.
Sammy on Aug 19, 2008
The thing I didn't like about Superman Returns is that they turned Superman into the absentee father of an illegitimate kid. I agree with many of the other comments on several points. They need to get rid of the kid. Also, they need to get rid of Lex for a while. It is getting tiresome to see him in all of the films as the main villain. I want to see Superman in a real battle. It might be a little early to bring in Doomsday so I like the idea of him battling against Darkseid. I want to see Superman have to go all out -- not just physically but also mentally and morally. I think Darkseid could challenge him on all of those levels.
Matt on Aug 19, 2008
You want to ditch Bosworth and her greasy wig? You want rid of that Jason kid? You want to ditch Luthor? You want a big nasty bastard of a villain? You want an dark, sensible and brilliant Superman film? Give it to David Fincher... he'll kick absolute arse with it.
FIL on Aug 19, 2008
Brainaic (reading the Action comics story going on now Brainaic fits the physical and mental challenge for superman) For a reboot he shouldn't be all that hard to write and start over. As much as Batman Begins had the "this could really happen" factor its more that we could relate to Batman and his anger about injustice and crime and wanting to do something about it. He was human and we can all relate to that. Hence where Superman fits in or doesn't fit in. He was adopted by a kind farmer and his wife but always knew he wasn't normal wasn't like anyone else. He's trying to find his place in the world and for a young man or woman thats something they can relate to. THen the second part is showing why he wears a "S" on his chest and his underwear on the outside (Of which there is no real reason for that so maybe a costume change is an order (Wizard magizine had a picture that was beautiful!)) Show where he go his values from doing the right thing came from the Kents but so did hiding his idenitity, and because he has to hide some one dies and poof Clark realizes he needs to be open about his powers so he can stop worrying and actually help people. Show the difference between the Farm boy clark who has now become Superman and the pretend Clark who spends his time at the Daily Planet. Clark isn't a actor so he's nervous for real when he has to pretend to be different then how he is the clark in the suit isnt real its pretend the Clark in the cape and the S on his chest for all to see is real. Lois is a major part of Superman so don't push her to the back but dont make her a damsel in distress every minute she's an army brat she knows a few moves let her get herself in trouble and get herself out of it. Oh and this has been missing from each movie they are REPORTERS she clark and Lois work there and all that stuff but never actually seen them gather news and information and use it to slam Luthor or whoever in jail. Jimmy Olsen he's superman's pal show some interaction between the two (other then when he's just Clark) make him and actual character (but still use him for comic relief) Luthor has been over done now doubt but he's always been there in the back ground plotting and planning Luthor can still play a part but he doesn't have to be the central villian. My idea Have Superman embarress Lex on his first appearence in Metropolois pissing Lex off (25 years ago after the meteor shower in Smallville Kansas that Lexcorp cleaned up) a green rock bearing the same symbol that is on Superman's chest. Realizing it gives off a type of radiation he uses it on SUperman discovers it weakens him wanting to see what other wonders the rock has he uses the kryptonite radiation to see if he can scan the universe to find anything else related to SUeprman and who does he find? Brainaic! who turns out to be responsible for destroying Krypton and has some sinister plan of his own. can have the bottled city of Kandor he rescues it returns people to the right size low and behold who happens to be in the city? Genral Zod! Superman 2 new Krypton now clark seems to have found people like him but they start to clash with his home world he has to chose between the million of kryptonians now of earth or his adopted home planet. New villians are introduced Parasite Metallo and possibly intergang or Doomsday. KIll superman off in a later movie and show the effect he's had on the world Guardian and Steel and even introduce Supergirl same idea different direction as she tries to pick up where her cousin left off and the whole point she wasn't raised by the kents. Keep Routh replace Lois keep Spacy replace who ever the hell was Jimmy (that kid from that jet Li Jackie chan movie be nice)
Samuel on Aug 19, 2008
I was just thinking about this a little bit more. What about Parasite? The villain that can steal Superman's powers?
Tom Brazelton on Aug 19, 2008
Superman is otherworldly so give him an alien to battle, it can't be hard there are laods of them. How about Mongul? He comes to destroy Earth and Superman agrees to battle on Warworld to save all of humanity? Surely if we see Big Blue on screen laying it all on the line for us mere mortals that's exactly what the paying public want to see and exactly what WB and DC need in order to get Superman back in everyones good books. Also, Superman engaged in some major fight scenes using all his powers to maximum effect to inflict real damage rather than just lifting stuff will be mind blowing. You add the intelligence level by having him refuse to succumb to Mongul's rule leading the a rebellion of the masses on Warworld... ala the Justice League episode way back when.
FIL on Aug 19, 2008
I guess in general, and I mean this is me shooting spit balls here, I am not fancy movie exec, they should try not making bad movies. See I didn't like Batman, because it was a good Batman movie. I liked Batman because it was a good movie and it happened to be about Batman. But Nathan, the movie execs say, how do we do this. Well it's simple, first you get writers. Really, lay some money down and get good writers, the best director on Earth with all the talented actors you can afford will never make up for a horrible script. So just take your budget, and whatever money you set aside for the writers in Superman Returns and double it. Create interesting villains, plot twists, dialogue. That's it. Then get a director, some actors, whatever, and make your movie. Please someone show me a good movie with bad writing, because they just don't exist. Well that's just me. I am sure some fan boy somewhere will be super cheesed if Superman's cape is a shade darker than it should be no matter how good the rest of it is.
Nathan on Aug 19, 2008
I agree with 9. The hardest challenge is connecting the audience with everyone. This has to be superman's TOUGHEST challenge yet, on all planes. We have to see him get the living shit beat out of him. If this next movie is going to be called THE MAN OF STEEL, then Singer better prove it. I won't go into the details - but I think having Darkseid would be the strongest potential for a blockbuster movie. Something has to happen where Superman's powerless in some regard. Maybe Superman gets zapped/teleported by Darkseid to the Phantom Zone and loses his powers and gets the shit beat out of him(briefly enough to let audiences connect more for now he's nothing more than human) - I think Singer tried to do that in SReturns, with love being the one thing Supermans powers can't do shit about. Unfortunately, superman fans didn't come to see him battle love issues. For the next one to be successful - He has to do two things(the count is at 2 for now): 1- Be a Badass-> He has to fight - showing off his powers - whether it be tanks, alien aircraft, etc to prove he's a superhuman powerhouse. Attack him with an alien mechwarrior or some shit(1st half of movie) However, you can't be limited solely to robots. That fighting has to pour over into punching live enemies(probably aliens or other superhumans) - Enter epic fight scene with Darkseid - whether on his ship orbiting the earth - or in the heart of Metropolis. Overall - He has to excite people and prove to them that he can not only deliver the strongest, fastest attacks, but also take a massive beating(which means he's got to get heavily blugended/torn apart; Darkseid nearly kills him - Maybe he has Kryponite armor or something to reinforce his torment. EX: Surrounded, Superman freezes enemies, then turn and wipe out a dozen enemies with his heat vision, then his suddendly landed on by Darkseid, followed by Darkseid beating superman literally into the ground. 2- Show Human Emotions-> The strongest(and hardest) clincher to make this a good movie is to have the audiences connect. He has to get pissed at some point, show off that this time around, he can't control his human emotions, his superhuman rage is brought out enough for the audience to relate. Overall - That's the biggest thorn in the superman movie franchise - Having the audience relate to a superhuman alien. *Wild Card Thought* - Maybe the central aspect of the next film is that Superman understands human emotion and the will they possess, even if they aren't all powerful. Like citizens are like, "Yeah, Superman - well that's easy for him b/c he's all powerful - try working 9-5 in a cubicle!" As if the writers express the 'call-out' that most tasks are easy for superman, but being a normal human is the hardest. I donno. Anyone kind of see where I'm going with that? I think Singer has learned his lesson and with his reputation, he deserves another crack. Bringing in Doomsday would solve nothing but putting the superman franchise into the ground - no pun intended.
Nick Sears on Aug 19, 2008
The reason why Superman 1 & 2 worked was and is because they were somewhat dark films: In the first movie Lois died because Superman had to choose between keeping his word or breaking it. In the second movie Superman gives up his powers only to find out that 3 beings with his powers have invaded earth. He has to get his powers back only to be defeated(temporarily), and lose his chances at a normal life with Lois. This is the movie I would want see: Should be dark. I would even darken the primary colors a little bit. They should briefly explore his early relations with Lex Luthor: I picture a seen with a young Clark and Lex looking out at the Metropolis skyline with Lex telling Clark how Lex will oneday own all of Metropolis--that it's not a dream but his destiny. Later Lex would have, after being defeated by Superman many times before, spent years developing weapons, using kryptonite radiation, with the goal of being able to effectively defeat and kill Superman. His rational would be that no one man should have all of this power without there being some layers of protection from him. Maybe he would sell some of this to the government, however, his main goal would be to confront and fight Superman, in Metropolis with all eyes on this battle--to show Metropolis and the world at large that Superman is not so "super" and that the world needs Lex's brains rather than Superman's brawn. I would imagine that in order for this to take place, Lex would secretly have Louis Lane kidnapped, leaving some sort of clue or indicator that only Superman would recognize, pointing him toward Lex. Lex would be on his balcony one evening and Superman would confront him as to where Lois is. Superman would be tempted to comfront him then and there but Lex hints that it would cost Lois her life and that if he wants Lois, then he will meet him at a certain location in Metropolis the following day. This is where Lex would call out Superman and the battle would begin. I imagine Lex would have something like a partial body suit that could emit controlled bursts of radiation from kryptonite which would weaken Superman within a 20 mile square radius...maybe other things like kryptonite bombs, lasers, bullets, etc. He would also have an enrgy field around his body that would protect him from debris, etc. Like invisible armor. Lex would defeat Superman and stop just short of killing him--for now. He doesn't want to do that in the public eye--just humiliation. Lex would then stage a rescue operation, with his own mercs, funded by him, and very public, to rescue Lois Lane. Some of Metropolis would begin to side with Lex and Superman would withdraw to rethink his role or position...maybe a moment of doubt in what he's doing. At this point Lex would decide it's time to kill Superman..however, another threat to Lex's empire would arise(maybe alien..I'm not sure). Lex would decide that it may be beneficial to keep Superman around for now as insurance against this new threat. He may even aid Superman and this might cont into another film. Ultimatley Superman would deafeat Lex before being defeated and killed himself by Doomsday. Just my 2 cents.
Sammy on Aug 19, 2008
For those who think superheroes _have_ to be flawed and dark after, 'Dark Knight', you are on a _completely_ wrong track, I must say 0_0 Japanese manga and anime had have "boy scout" hero-type characters for years, that fans have adored and loved. As for characters with a non-grim attititude, look no further then our side of the earth, with characters like: Hellboy, Spiderman, The Fantastic Four, etc... Besides, being a boy scout and symbol of truth and justice, in itself, is a flaw. Many villains would try to use this against Superman. We can't just lean on, 'Dark Knight' on everything :/. Cause sooner or later, when every superhero out there starts to copy Batman, we'll be blaming every producer and director on the planet... but deep inside... we'll know it was us. *solemn nod*
LW on Aug 19, 2008
@ Real6, I TOTALLY agree!!! The Superman Animated Series from the '90s is exactly what the character should be. He was aware of his powers, aware of the great burden/gift that they are. Make a movie surrounding his burdens. I've said this over and over again, DC Heroes are the stoic heroes of the entire comic book genre. They take everything on the chin. Just look at Christian Bale's Batman, he knows he has to take the blame for Harvey Dent's murder so that he can protect the guy's reputation and thus Gotham's last vestiges of hope. Each and every DC character has that same vein of stoicism running through them. It's the pain beneath that stoicism that Nolan depicts in his movies, something that can easily be done with Superman. Now, I'm not saying I know the whole Superman legend, but I'm sure as hell acquainted with the mythos. SO IS EVERYONE ELSE!!! If we get another depiction of Krypton being destroyed, or glamor shot of the Fortress of Solitude, or some half-assed introduction to the Daily Planet, the movie will tank. Absolutely no way it won't, because it's following the same formula as the previous Superman titles. We have to lose the cliches first. And one of those cliches is Lex Luthor as villain. Now, for the layman, Lex Luthor is the only damn villain Superman has any trouble with. it's bullsh*t, I know, but go ahead, ask Joe Schmo on the street and see what they have to say. So keeping him for the first of a trilogy might be ok, if he's actually depicted as the devious, diabolical, possibly deviant (that's right, let's make him a little more evil PLEASE all he's been depicted as is a conniving brat with money). But what's most important is that Lex Luthor NOT understand Superman's reasons for fighting for justice. The thing about the dynamic between the Joker and Batman was that the Joker knew what Batman didn't want him to know, which bothered him to his batty core. Superman is different from Batman. He already is a symbol, so he wants people to know what truth, justice, and egalitarianism is. He doesn't want to inspire people to find their own paths, he wants people to follow this already set out path that he himself has also followed. So when Lex Luthor doesn't understand Superman's boy-scout behavior, when he doesn't understand Superman's need to save the world from itself, Superman is bothered in the same way that Batman is bothered. He tries to make Luthor understand. The theme of The Dark Knight was burden. Not sacrifice, because that was the previous movie's theme (what with Bruce's sacrifice of his need for vengeance, the sacrifice of Rachel Dawes, the sacrifice of a normal party-boy lifestyle for one of a vigilante in a bat costume). The Dark Knight takes on the burden no one else can. He is the proverbial well that everyone can drop their sorrow and anger in, so that they won't take it out on themselves. The theme of the next Superman movie, in my view, should be of free will. Superman could be flawed in one way: he believes he can change people's fates. It's not that his powers have gotten to his head, it's that he sorely believes that because of his powers he can change people's minds even if they don't want to be changed. It's a sore lesson, represented by Lex Luthor. Lex is compelled by his jealousy of Superman, his hatred for the fact that Superman doesn't share his powers and that he doesn't have them either. (It was touched upon by Kevin Spacey, but really, having a bit of dialogue about it between him and Superman would have been nice). Superman is compelled to try and change Luthor, and when he can't, his worldview falls and is changed. It doesn't have to be dark to be good, guys. Superman isn't a dark story. Superman IS hope, he IS justice, he IS righteousness. But that doesn't mean he's flawed in his perception of humanity. Everyone's been touching upon Tarantino's interpretation of Superman. Well, that isn't just Tarantino's alone, but with that point aside we should all stop taking it so literally. At least, for the first movie of a possible trilogy. If Superman really does believe Humanity is weak, it wouldn't be in that first movie, and really, as a moviegoer, I'd like to see the development of that ideology first. So let that development proceed with Superman's sense of righteousness and need to change the world clashing against Lex Luthor's overwhelmingly blind jealousy and hatred of Superman. Let Lex try to pierce at everything that Superman is, and have Clark Kent take the windfall of the damages. Let Lex Luthor NOT understand his greatest foe, and have the two giants FINALLY HAVE A DECENT FREAKING CONVERSATION WITH EACH OTHER!!! That last sentence was in all caps because hell, I'm so damn angry that Superman and Lex haven't had a decent conversation the way Batman and the Joker did. Several times, by the way. SEVERAL TIMES IN ONE MOVIE! How come Superman and Luthor don't get that? Because Superman's a boy scout? That should be the exact reason WHY they get a decent conversation between each other!! Anyways, that's my shpiel. Make Superman try to change Lex, have Lex not understand Superman's compulsion, give Superman the flaw that he, and only he, can change the world because he has these magnificent superpowers, and then throw in a bloody battle with kryptonite for good measure. Keep Brainiac for the second movie, 😉
Reza on Aug 19, 2008
I agree with those calling for a 'super' alien, villain. Make sure he or she's got a black suit or get-up with silver trim, and orange skin with green diamond-like marks on its forehead and green eyes. Make this villain come into our universe through a black hole, with powers like flying and strength but with the ability to disintegrate/change elements into particles/dust, eg. water, fire, etc. This villain has its own black laser eye beams to counter Superman's own and can morph parts of its body as a shield to counter Superman's breath/wind/ice powers. On its suit (in silver) will be a drawing of the alien's home planet from another galaxy. Its only weaknesses, the red soil on Mars and it can not disintegrate diamonds. Now if we can come up with a name....................
Noodles777 on Aug 19, 2008
they should bring the man that ends up turning into a cyborg(i dont know his name) and brainiac. they should reboot the series.
Darrin on Aug 19, 2008
Singer is a brilliant, classy director - he had a lot of hard work to do to get the series back up to speed after the truly dreadful Superman IV, so I find all this moaning very depressing. He deserves another shot at it, I think. I trust him to respond to the criticism in the right way. We don't need yet another tiresome 'reboot' already, and we certainly don't need some gimmicky new take to somehow make it relevant to 'the kids'. If the film is good, it will find an audience, and I think it should be possible to brush off the elements fans were disatisfied with in Returns and still retain continuity. There's no need to sever ties with the original, brilliant Richard Donner movies at all. If they lose the greatest superhero theme tune ever written just so they can be 'fresh' or whatever, I certainly won't bother seeing it! Superman isn't a tortured, angst-ridden psycho, so please let him retain his own identity - don't try to turn this into The Dark Knight. More action, a real threat and a moral dilemma should all do the trick... I'm optimistic.
Maaad on Aug 19, 2008
I have no doubt Brandon Routh will be the odd man out, and thats ashame, because he was a really solid Man of steel! Somebody at Warner's has to be smart enough to copy the Chris Nolan school of super hero filmaking. Make things realistic, and tap into the mass fear of living in a post 9/11 world. Its that simple! I think its safe to say that Bryan Singer has directed his one and only movie in this franchise!
entertainmenttodayandbeyond.com on Aug 19, 2008
#25 as pointed out, Lois's memory of Superman was wiped clean by Supes kiss at the end of the movie. The question should be were you High??? LOL. Anyways, I like the idea of a Doomsday movie next. I think we've seen enough of Supes now that doing a death of Superman story line won't be out of line. Returns wasn't as good because we didn't get to see Supes do anything amazing besides the usual stuff that we've already seen. You would think that with todays special effects they would come up with something more unique. I liked Singer's visual style but he had a crappy script to work with. No real threat and he ended up having a son??? Ditch everything that Returns created and start out fresh again like the Incredible Hulk. Millar seems to be pretty devoted to this subject, I would love to see what he has. Routh makes for a good Superman but he really needs to beef up more. Is it just me or did that costume in Returns make him look like he had a long waist??? As most people has stated in this post, I would love to see Supes really use his powers in the next movie... a fight with a stronger being would be nice. Play more with the idea of good vs evil in a psychological way like in TDK.
Omega728 on Aug 19, 2008
It's sad that a fantastical approach to storytelling is now - based on a lot of the feedback here and elsewhere - considered such an outdated concept. Why does everything have to be 'realistic' to be good? What's wrong with unashamed fantasy? Let's not let our imaginations atrophy like this. Superman has superpowers, he isn't Batman, or even Iron Man. If every movie that comes out is a carbon copy of The Dark Knight (which is brilliant - I'm not criticising it) and that style of filmmaking, it's going to get very dull, very quickly.
Maaad on Aug 19, 2008
Superman Space Adventures - Superman flys from planet to planet and saves the ass of the good guys on each planet. He battles huge metal robots, laser armed aliens, human clones, people with time machines, moon eating scorpion-like warships .... that kind of stuff. I'm tired of the Daily Planet and stupid Clark Kent.
WaterFunk on Aug 19, 2008
Had a little more to add. there should be a theme in the story much like Batman fear addressing the issues of today. I doubt today we'd accept some good samaritian who just wants to help just how todays world is. So I'm just adding to what I said before. Make sure there is a difference between when he's clark kent mild manner reporter he slouches, he walks with his feet turned inward his stutters when he speaks, but he's one hell of reporter. When he's Superman that when the old farm boy from Kansas shines thru he stands up straight his voice is stern and strong, and just radiates with confidence. Lois is reporting on intergang activity in Metropolis, beleiving it has some connection to Lex Luthor billionaire inventor who basically owns all of Metropolis. She's and army brat who gets on Perry's last nerve he'd fire her if she wasn't so dam good at her job. she's the only person Cat Grant will be friends with (in her own mocking kind of way) and the sports reporter continuiously hits on. She's a take no bullshit kinda gal and her contact is a guy who lives in the Metropolis slums Bibbo (I think thats his name he was in the animated series) Jimmy Olsen is basically how Clark is when he first arrives in Metropolis , Jimmy sees Clark as an older brother but Superman as an inspiration. While all he does at the office is fetch Perry's coffee he aspires to be more and only Clark really beleives in him becasue the kid can take some dam good pictures. Lex is sinister and has no moral compass. He's always thinking of ways to better man and how he can profit from it long term make a cure for cancer? thats a one time deal something that manages cancer with little fuss and 90-100% effective cha-ching! My previous movie idea shows Clark struggling on how best to use his powers without putting his parents at risk hence the new office clark persona. look above to my previous post on how Luthor brings Brainaic to earth. Clark learns of his birth planet and rescues the bottled city of Kandor restoring them to their normal state Superman 2 New Krypton- The kryptonians believe they have every right take over the earth after seeing how primitive we humans are, Lead by General Zod they begin to make Earth into their new home. Meanwhile Clark struggles still with the idenitity Lois is becoming suspicious but how he's handled the earths problems he feels its not his place but he has the power. When tension betweens the Krytonians and the Humans start to reach the boiling point Superman tries to intervene and reason with his people but they simply banish him to the phantom zone (Hey a cool 3-D monent for the movie) with Superman gone Luthor uses the oppertunity to get back into everyones good graces (in the first movie his connection to intergang is exposed but he tries to fight it claiming ailens took over his brain) creating Metallo and Parasite. Lois and Jimmy go to rescue Superman and discover others who do not wish to follow General Zod (enter Nightwing and Fire or is it Flamebird). Superman 3 Doomsday- A meteor is headed to earth mad e from Kryptonite Superman becomes weaker and weaker. a team of astronounts Hank Henshaw his wife and his team go to destroy the meteor. but disappear in the explosion. Something else however makes it thru and lands on earth Kara Zor-el Superman's cousin from Krypton. As they get close and learn about each other intergang attempts to capture the girl when they prove unsuccessful the being known as Kalibak arrives on earth to claim her who also gets his ass handed to him. Later in metropolis the being known as Doomsday arrives and battles Superman as elsewhere Kara is attacked by Granny Goodness and her female furies. beleiving her to be just as strong as he cousin she unleashes her full might and defeats them then rushes to her cousin's side who has already died in his epic battle with the monster known as doomsday. realizing he'll just have to do things himself Darksaid comes to earth Kara battles him now in the Supergirl persona. Supergirl- Kara now trying to carve out a life for her self on earth tries to fill the void left by her cousin be no one really has faith in her as she isn't as careful with her powers and can make a disaster worse. New heroes are born Steel, and Gangbuster. When a homely toymaker starts killing buisness men from the army (Lois Lane's father Samuel Lane being a target) Supergirl gets invovled with Lois and Jimmy's help going after Toyman. Even teaming up with Steel and Gangbuster Supergirl 2 The girl of steel- Supergirl begins trying form a secret idenitity on earth but can't seem to conceal her powers and doesnt want to. Cat Grant has some issues with Supergirl and begins to tarnish her name. Luthor who has been trying to clone Superman finally succeeds. The world beleives superman has returned, as does Kara who finds her cousin a bit odd when she tries to connect with him but he has very little memory of his life before! The bounty hunter known as Lobo arrives on earth to kill Superman Kara teams up with Superman to battle the foe. during the fighter SUperman is injured and begins to have personality change as he becomes more violent and derranged even like a cracked mirror of the original Superman. Supergirl battles the bizzaro Superman and with help from Steel determines that he was created by Luthor who tries to Kill Kara since she is the last Kryptonian making them extinct. Superman Rebirth- a ship crashes into smallville inside its Superman (oy another yeah I know but bare with me) has memories of being Clark he's taken in by the Kents and begins preparing to return to metropolis he even manages to prove himself to Kara when he stops the would be planet conquer Mongul. Lois however is a little more skeptical then everyone who wants to beleive this one is the real deal when she discovers that the body burried in metropolis is gone! (in truth she'll already know that in the girl of steel) Lois travels to the artic to find Superman's fortress of solitude. Things get weird when during the battle with SIlver Banshee half of Superman's face is blown awayand reveals a cyborg head underneath. Quickly things take a turn for the worst as its revealed that Mongul and this Cyborg Superman are working together!. He takes control of all the machines in metropolis and changes it into a machine city. (we learn that Hank Hanshaw had ended up on War World and due to the exposure to so much kryptonite made him able to talk to machines and he fused with the planet's machines and made mongul his slave vowing to get revenge on Superman beleiving the krytonite meteor was his fault) but since Superman is dead he'll just take revenge on the city he loved. Supergirl is captured by Mongul and Steel and Gangbuster try to save her. at the fortress of solitude Lois finds Superman inside alive thanks to the space craft that brought him to earth. When he finds out what the fake superman has done he returns to metropolis and teams up with Steel and Gang buster fight with Mongul, rescue Supergirl. (The return of Bizarro or kill Supergirl I'm thinking of the sceen when Superman finally defeated the cyborg superman because of the gas that was running machine city) Superman returns for real this time but people are still skeptical Superman has to reearn their trust. Clark Kent returns to the Daily Planet few months later as he was part of the people who are still recovering from Doomsday attack.
Samuel on Aug 19, 2008
Grant Morrison's "All Star Superman" series would be perfect for the next film.
Rockin' Rich on Aug 19, 2008
"What would you want to see Warner Brothers do with Superman?" Kill him. I've wanted to see the Superman-Doomsday showdown on screen ever since I read the comics. Of course, Nolan-esque realism would be all wrong for Superman. Superman needs some style. My ideal director for the next Super-flick would be Zack Snyder. As I recall, Watchmen has one or two "boy-scouts" and that's turning out great.
Michael Hansen on Aug 19, 2008
Here is the flaw with Superman: Clark loves Lois. Lois loves Superman. Clark = Superman. Just tell her who you are and get it on already...
Cameron on Aug 19, 2008
Make it a space story bring in Braniac helped by the Cyborg, have Lobo make a cameo and then make a sick R rated Lobo movie
Pablo on Aug 19, 2008
They really can't do a good Superman story without it being cheesey in SOME way, only in animation can they really do that. What they should do is just admit that Superman is a tired character in today's society, we need a character that actually has a story worth telling and that just isn't Superman. We need a character that has faults, once again, something Superman does not have. I'm so tired of reboots because it's good every once in a while when you fuck up one franchise or potential franchise, but it's not good if it's a year full of them.
Kail on Aug 19, 2008
A continuation is NOT an option. Mark Millar's vision is what they need if they want to make a good movie. Why the hell is he not hired already...
Joshua on Aug 19, 2008
Death of Superman... hands down
Seth Steele on Aug 19, 2008
I'm all for a continuation of Singer's Superman with Routh. It's kind of sad how fickle people can be, just because the first film reboot doesn't meet all the fan-boy expectations. I thought Superman Returns was a great homage to what had come before, while offering something new. It really was the best of both worlds, in my opinion. My only real complaint about the movie was the lack of good old fashioned super powered fist fights ala Superman II, and I actually hated that drab looking costume. But over-all, a solid cast and director who does in fact understand the appeal of Superman, and I think these guys deserve a chance to follow it up with a sequel. Let's just get a better script this time. Movie re-vamps don't always hit a home-run at first. Look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Thank god they kept the original cast with Star Trek II, which was an amazing sequel that completely eclipsed its predecessor. I think when film makers start rebooting franchises every couple of years just because they didn't hit some ill-concieved profit margin, fans are going to become less and less interested in making that investment of time, energy and emotional investment in the story and characters.
Scott on Aug 19, 2008
Anything that'll get supes to a more mature and possibly darker edge. Doomsday is a great storyline that was given a great going over in animation. why not film? if that doesn't work how about a compilation film where Superman doesn't have to carry the movie such as an adaptation of frank Millers "Dark Knight Returns". "Kingdom Come" another fabulous graphic novel would be another logical choice as Superman is a much more jaded and darker character than in anything before. There's even a great battle between Shazamm and Supes in that one! Geez, doesn't hollywood even look at these possibilities?
Jim on Aug 19, 2008
Superman shouldn't be a 'dark' character. That's why we have Batman.
Scott on Aug 19, 2008
I think they have to continue the story that they started. I don't think they could restart a franchise a third time and survive.
Tyler on Aug 19, 2008
in response to post #12 Hey Tom.....I think this is excellent content for a Theater Hopper strip!
vyperstrike on Aug 19, 2008
The Superman franchise should get a reboot not a 20 year old sequal by a fan boy. It should be started over from scratch and follow the comics better. Luther should be an untouchable villan even to superman, supermans earth father should be alive he is in the comics. The 1st reboot movie should have Clark growing into Superman , how he got the suit and why. Have him clean up Metropilis ala Batman then you can bring in the heavy hitters for the villans. I just don't want a sequal to Superman Returns. I want a fresh new story that people will be able to get behind not a story where Superman is a dead beat dad. Those are my thoughts.
DaVe! on Aug 19, 2008
Do I care about Superman ? No ...I never did ...even when I was child I bought comic books of Superman just because there was a small part in it with Batman ( Jim Aparo's style ) ... I don't hate Superman but I don't care what will happen with him and what they will do about him ... I am sure Nolan will never get so low to direct a movie with Superman ...and I will only watch a movie with Superman when there is Batman in it ... otherwise...No ... That is why my answer is I hope they will not make another Superman movie ... and if they do then let it be Superman vs. Batman movie ..otherwise I don't care 😉 in another side Superman can't be so dramatic ...because it is against his nature ...he is a Superman not a normal human being ... and that is why no one can take Superman and make it dramatic as the Dark Knight ...
Shero on Aug 19, 2008
There's a lot of people here who want to see a "dark" Superman movie. Why? Just go watch the Batman movies again or Watchmen. The key to Superman is that he's not Batman. He's the bright light to Batman's darkness. Instead of making a "darker" Superman movie just because that's the current popular trend, I'd rather see a bright Superman film, ala the first Spiderman movie. A "hero triumphant" film, not a "fallen hero" film. The reason that Batman works so well as a dark film is because Batman is a gruesome story about revenge and turmoil. His parents were murdered in cold blood right in front of him. That'll mess a kid up. Superman never knew his real parents, but was raised on an idyllic Kansas farm by the two kindest people imaginable and pretty much enjoyed a very "Norman Rockwell" youth. Dark doesn't really suit the character. Just my two cents.
Peter on Aug 19, 2008
@People suggesting Death of Superman They're not going to re-boot a franchise and kill off Superman in the first movie...think about it...
Joshua on Aug 19, 2008
Superman's character does not have to become dark, he just needs flaws.
dezdigi on Aug 19, 2008
The imagery of Superman Returns was fine I thought, as with the space travel but the kid has cornered it badly. If he were to die, imagine what that would do to Lois Lane. I'm not too sure what to do next but Darkseid would provide some violence for sure.
ngh1 on Aug 19, 2008
I agree with others on the whole Lex being to much of a goofball. I liked the animated Lex in where he was what appeared to be an evil tony Stark type, and that is the angle they need to go. I can see a bald Billy Zane playing the animated type Lex, and way in movie villans why not go with Metallo constructed by Lex Corp.? Not to far fetched but enough of a sci fi thing and a formidable opponent.
CDZ on Aug 19, 2008
Also, I think Warner should avoid a Nolan route. Don't see how it could work w/ Superman because they're 2 totally different characters. 1 is feel good and the other is just dark and gloomy. Even the animated series were distinguished in such a manner. Spider-Man worked without having to go the Nolan route so why can't Superman? Whoever has to come up w/ the script has to get away from Lex being the main/only villian. There are plenty others out there.
CDZ on Aug 19, 2008
lol! Reading through these, I just noticed a lot of people are being epic-ignored by a lot of people 😀
LW on Aug 19, 2008
@64 Haha i noticed that too!
MacGruber on Aug 19, 2008
For all you morons who think just because TDK did well for it's dark themes and realistic setting, that it will translate to Superman is fucking idiotic. Let's not start a trend of "dark superheroes" based on Batman's box office numbers, Superman is a totally different type of character as Bats. Just like you have intense and violent police officers you have honest and upstanding firefighters, both are considered heroic professions, I think Supes is the firemen he's the Apple pie hero. All Warner Bros. needs to do is amp up the action, let Superman be "Super" and punch someone, and provide a villian who can punch back, stop worshipping Dick Donner and get off his dick. Lay off the Jesus/Moses comparisons, get rid of the kid or at the very least groom him to become Superboy, get rid of Bosworth as Lois she was boring, weak in personality and devoid of any chemistry with Brandon Routh. For all of Margo Kidder's faults at least she was spunky, determined, quick witted, and most importantly she stood out and you could understand why a "Man of Steel" would fall for a normal human woman over a Wonder Woman. The Superman franchise is fixable, Routh made a good Supes in my opinion and I felt Kevin Spacey was wasted as Lex he deserves a second shot as the evil genuis.
PimpSlapStick on Aug 19, 2008
#33 WTF are you talking about? Yeah I agree Darkseid would be the best bet for a villian, but we've already seen Supes depowered and beaten up in two movies, fuck that just give him a badguy who can match Supes blow for blow and have at it.
PimpSlapStick on Aug 19, 2008
wow all the way down to #48 for the first Lobo idea... How bout a prequel... Superman was gone for what, 5 years in Superman returns. Maybe make a movie on the story of his trip out to krypton. i.e. on his road trip he stops by a planet, saves some of its inhabitants from one of Darkseid’s minions. Darkseid puts out a bounty on superman… enter Lobo. Lobo gets the better of him as Sups is distraught at the remains of Krypton and drags him back to Apokolips. Earth shattering fight and escape ensues and Sups is eventually back on his way home. Closing scene of movie is Braniac’s ship orbiting the planet superman saved in the beginning setting up the 3rd in the series. 3rd movie would have Darkseid and Braniac on earth.
azrican on Aug 19, 2008
@ dezdigi, totally, FLAWS=Gold with superman, not darkness. and LW, I totally agree lol, everyone's so damn amped up over their own opinions they arent replying to neone else's. One comment though, why Lobo now? If there's ONE thing Superman needs to take away from The Dark Knight, it's natural plot progression. Lobo is just a bit too much of a deus ex machina for all the fanboys out there. Then again, azrican, that's a really cool idea having a bounty out for Superman, and then in the third movie they could come up with Darkseid actually coming in to kill Superman himself since Lobo obviously failed. Boomshakalaka! haha, but that's my two cents, hopefully someone reads them. 😉 and post # 36!!!
Reza on Aug 19, 2008
Superman is a god! I loved Superman in the comic books when he could take a direct hit from a nuclear warhead and brush it off. He could move planets. It's when they weaken him in order to make him more human that the problems began. Now he couldn't fight earth shattering villains. He was forced to fight villains that would have been power puffs in the past. I agree with #31. Batman is an earth bound hero. Batman is just a human. Superman should be the opposite. He should be a hero that fights villains that no earth bound , human hero can fight. Batman is an infantry soldier. Superman is a nuclear bomb. He should be fighting villains from other space. Superman should be our space bound superhero. He should be the first line of Defense against alien or other dimensional villains. Mongul and War World and Darksaid were two good examples. I also agree with #52's choice for material that Hollywood can use just as they used Batman Year One and The Long Halloween for The Batman Movies. I like the idea of a more jaded and darker Superman. Finally; I think that Mark Millar's Superman for the 21st Century will make Superman loved by the modern movie goers. Mark Millar did a wonderful job making costumed superheroes for The 21st Century. His take on The Authority, The Squadron Supreme and The Ultimates are still the best take on modern Superheroes. I believe that he could do for Superman what Nolan did for Batman. Nolan's movies were PG-13 and they still attracted the young, old , women, men and fan boys. I agree with letting Mark Millar taking updating Superman for today's audiences.
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 19, 2008
I'm with "PimpSlackStick". The franchise doesn't need a "reboot". It needs a redirection.
Quanah on Aug 19, 2008
I have never cared for Superman and never liked any of the movie (that i have seen) but i never really cared for batman before Christopher Nolan made Batman Begins, in my personal opinion i think they should take a darker path of superman and see where it goes from there. Just my two cents....
Curtis on Aug 19, 2008
My comment has recieved 2 replies... I R WINNAR! 😀
LW on Aug 20, 2008
As I said before : Superman can't be so dramatic …because it is against his nature …he is a Superman not a normal human being … and that is why no one can take Superman and make it dramatic as the Dark Knight … Edit : And if it doesn't go dramatic the movie will not bee good .... why ? because we all saw The Dark Knight and it is a point of change for such comic movies .... any comic movie that released after The Dark Knight can't run from that fact it will be compare by The Dark Knight ... because it is the point of perfection ... that everyone will try to reach it ...
Shero on Aug 20, 2008
Superman is just too overpowered to make any good action out of it. The only thing they could possible do is to make the Doomsday vs Superman and kill him off. Because every single film has been just too predictable, villains get some cryptonite, make him weak, still cant finish him off and get their asses kicked. Or some variations on that. It is not exciting so every film focuses on Supermans personal problems instead, which is just plain boring when it comes to such a boyscout as he really is. He is too perfect and flawless. So kill him off I say.
Shige on Aug 20, 2008
I think a superman movie can be done again, But they should start from scratch! start from the beginning. Show his childhood again and the process where he realizes he is different from the rest of society, those are the things that originally caught people's attention about the superhero. Just show it in better detail and put more drama and passion into it then the original movie's. If a writer can take the story of superman and write it into a successfull sitcom series then the superhero can have a successfull hit. Dont make batman, Ironman, and Spiderman movies and forget about the best of them all Superman, Its just not right.
Ben W. on Aug 20, 2008
CGI Christopher Reeves. That's the ultimate solution.
Scott on Aug 20, 2008
I say give Millar's script to Singer and see what we get. I liked what Singer did with the visuals and feel of Returns. I don't believe that Superman needs to be any darker than what he was in Returns, he just needs a stronger villain and script. I definitely think that Singer deserves another chance on this franchise. #74 I disagree with you... what you're basically saying is that just because Superman has Powers makes him less dramatic? If you don't look at the Super powers, he still has to face and make the same choices like everyone else. Having super powers on the outside doesn't make him less human on the inside. The last time I checked, Bruce Wayne isn't a normal human being either.... how many Billionaires do you see running around with High technology gadgets fighting crime, can you honestly relate to that? Of course I understand that Superman probably can't be as dark or physically as realistic as Batman, but what makes these characters dramatic is what they have to face on the inside and the choices that they have to make. 20 years ago, if you were to ask anyone if there could be a Batman movie as dark and dramatic as TDK, they'll probably laugh at you. Just because the Superman franchise hasn't reached that level yet doesn't mean that it can't. (and by me saying "that level", I'm not saying that it has to be exactly like TDK) Before Frank Miller's take on Batman in the mid 80's no one really saw him to be the character he is today. You're basing your opinions on the basic ideas of Superman and not looking beyond that.
Omega728 on Aug 20, 2008
# 78 Omega728 : I remember that even in the 80th with the Jim Aparo's style .... Batman was dramatic and had more realistic issues to deal with than the other characters not just Superman ....and I mention 80th because I grew up with Jim Aparo's comics... the realism in the drawing and the drama that you find in that comics were unseen able ...I didn't saw that feeling and that sadness in any of the other characters ...I mean the entire justice League .... ( I don't mention the name of the writer ..because I believe what I see in the drawing is enough to tell me about the story ...even Batman had a lot of nice writers but the other artists who draw him just killed that realism that Batman have ) I am not fighting over Batman's character ...I am not making him look better than Superman ...but I am answering your point that 20 years ago the comics I saw gave me the view of drama more than a comic that I must enjoy with ... it gave more realism in his character than just a comic and funny pictures ... I don't care how the movies showed Batman .... they all came from the comics and as much I remember Superman was always having problem with his enemies ...but nothing serious with his life ... maybe the death of his father and mother ...but everyone will get that feeling when he grow up and must deal with it ... Superman is kind a funny character ..not in his face but in the power he have ...he is always the show man ...he is the symbol for safety .... he can be out anytime day and night ... But Batman is not ...Batman is a man of night and the darkness ... Batman comes like shadow and these elements will always make people be afraid from him ...even when he save their lives ... Batman still undiscovered ... and hidden ...he is not a show man ...he is not a face or commercials... he got more fight inside him than fighting with evils in Gotham .... these make Batman more dramatic ... I hope you understand my point is not to broke the name of Superman but it is the truth that Superman fans must accepted .... Conclusion : Superman is a Show man and commercial face with his nonhuman super powers ... Batman is not 😉 ( Nothing against Superman fans )
Shero on Aug 20, 2008
well now in the comics he does have a fortress of solitude made from Kryptonian crystals. I beleive during the silver age Luthor did spend some time in smallville and in an issue of Superman/Batman it was said that Kryptonite can give humans superpowers (but that was writen by one of the writers of heroes (or smallville cant recall) and he could possibly going off of smallville origins) SO there is some connection just a matter of who influenced who
Samuel on Aug 20, 2008
This is so RETARDED, all these posts keep saying DOOMSDAY and BRAINIAC, wHAT HAPPPEND TO THE 28 KNOWN GALAXIES THAT THE KRYPTONIANS KNEW ABOUT. Thats why superman keeps failing, cause they never take him off t his damn rock. Its always here fighting for good justice and the american way!!! WHATEVER!!!! Superman needs to go out into space and ended up getting his ass kicked by soemone with some actual power. Not ZOD cause he was killed in superman 2. Thats bringing in the 21st century not having him fight doomsday, or making an alternate earth or some stupid crap like that. leave that for the DC books not the screeN. The guy can fly to other galaxies why not let him. I think that allowing him to do that would be kick ass. Bring in MARTIN Manhunter, have some space hunters inform superman that theres a bounty on manhunters head and then superman and him fight and he almost gets killed but then superman finds out he was lied too. CAUSE YA KNOW HE ALWAYS WANTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING and then he realizes that Martin is a good guy and it was actually martin that was chasing them. Dude you can fill 3 hours in that short story!!!!
THERBLIG on Aug 20, 2008
Why not make Tom de Haven's novel 'It's Superman!' Its set in the 1930's and would make a great but very different Superman movie.
Agent X on Aug 20, 2008
What is wrong with having Mark Millar? I have read all of Mark Millar's comic books. He is a good writer. Singer is still relying on the Reeve's Movies. They had nothing in common with DC's Superman. Smallville has nothing to do with DC comics Superboy and Superboy and The Legion of Superheroes. Green Kryptonite doesn't give earthlings superpowers. The DC comic's Superman doesn't live in a fortress made of krytonian Crystals. If the LW on this thread is the same LW on The Dark Knight Thread ; he can tell you that The Superman Movies and Smallville TV Show have very little if nothing in common with DC Comics. Singer failed to bring Superman to the 21st century. He just continued the Reeves Movie version of Superman. We need a "Superman Begins" type of film. A film that will erase Reeves films and Singers film. LW is you are the same LW from The Dark Knight Thread ; I welcome you back.lol.
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 20, 2008
I think they should do the Death of Superman and within this storyline they should incorporate the death of his son by doomsday, this would really show us the extent of Sups powers as he you could have him holding back in the battle up to this point and when he sees his sons body in the rubble after Dooms knocks superman into the building he is in then he stops holding back and we would finally get to see what happens when you make a god truly angry, you could have him completely loose it and the power that would emanate from each of his punches would level entire blocks, you would also have the back story of his son dying as Sups was invulnerable so when he hit the building that was what caused the damage and ultimately led to the death of his son and also Lois could be there to witness the whole thing!!! This would give us all the kick ass no holds barred film that we’ve never got to see and also sort out the small problem of Sups having a kid.
Dar-El on Aug 20, 2008
To #82 Martin Manhunter?.... Martin? .... sounds like a cannibal-nerd. LOL! Maybe next, Superman will take on the whip-wielding 'Domsday' and the bowel-moving 'Braniac'. 😀
LW on Aug 20, 2008
I thought the Superman Returns Movies was a lot better that the Superman 1,2 Superman 3,4, Garbage and Super Girl Bad Movie but Cute Super Girl. I am not a Comic Book reader put have read some of the Superman Comics from 1960's to late 1990' s and when I was a Kid I watch Superman George Reeves Superman. Superman Batman Fantastic four Cartoons they were great. I see in the old comic books that superman fought many different creatures and villains so why not bring out the creatures and villains from the Comic Books, or Continue with the Superman Returns Sequel but put a lot more action in to the movie lets feel the power. I like the movie very much I say it in theatre thought it was good. What made the George Reeves shows so good well to me it was his adventure in the Daily Planet and the jumping out a window and flying faster that a speeding bullet the sound affects when he flew, this was cheap but it work. Anyways I am tired of watching Superman Returns over and over waiting for a new Superman Returns Sequel, this is taking way to long. Maybe get a young kid to write and direct a new Superman at least it would be good and made. Bring on a new Superman Movie the wait is to long.
Friend on Aug 20, 2008
Why couldn't they do the same thing for Superman as they did for Iron Man. I want to see a futuristic Superman, that can't be hurt or even come close to death. No sons. Also, he should battle some intergalactic super robots that throw him into building, where he smashes through walls, the building collapses on him, then Superman just stands up from the rubble. A truly amazing Superman could be done, especially with all the modern FX we've got, they just need some incredible writers.
Dustyman1505 on Aug 20, 2008
OH, Also, Lex can be in the movie, he can be be evil, he can even be the president, but lets not make him the arch-mimesis this next time.
Dustyman1505 on Aug 20, 2008
Could Tom Cruise be Superman?
Dustyman1505 on Aug 20, 2008
The biggest problem with Superman is Lois Lane. I know she's fundamental to the story but I never feel anything for her. She's always screaming and using her bolshy attitude to get herself into dangerous situations that Superman always has to come and rescue her from. She gets to date the main man yet rarely seems prepared to understand and tolerate that his first duty is to the rest of the world. In the end it seems the stories are just about rescuing this damsel in distress from another tiresomely predictable situation that although involves an evil despot taking over the world still seems to centre around her. The one that Singer did could not have been a greater example of this.
Payne by name on Aug 20, 2008
#81: yes I do know about Action Comics turning itself into Christopher Reeve's World including The Fortress of Solitude. Donner influenced the direction of Action including bringing back General Zod, Ursa and Non. There was even a mention of bringing Chloe to Superman and/or Action However ; she hasn't shown up yet. #82 has a good point. Superman's best adventures are the ones that happen in outer space. He must be more of a science fiction character then Batman. If you want Singer to continue The Superman Franchise; why not have a film that falls between Donner's George Reeves #2 and Singer's/ Routh's Superman returns. The movie can explain specifically where Routh's Superman was during his absence. This could be a completely Science Fiction Movie. We get to see him visit various planets like War World and meet Mongul, Rann where we're introduce to Adam Strange, Thanager and Their Hawkmen(Hawkman and Hawk Girl are not Thanagerians and won't be present)OA where he meets The Guardians and their Man Hunters( The Green Lantern Corp hasn't taken their place yet.) , Daxam where he meets Lar Gand, etc. There will be fights and peace. Enemies will be made but so will allies. Whether it's Millar or Singer, whether you prefer a different scenario; the important issue is to take him off Earth and into Outer Space.
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 20, 2008
Superman was done pretty good, the fact that it sucks because there wasn't anyone good enough in the movie to fought with him. The best way to work it out is to start the whole movie from scratch and read the comic books, take out some parts here and there to make a movie out of it. Start from begining and beliefly explain how he got here and become Superman. Then put a good villain to fight him. People either watch the movie for the Actions, or for the Storyline. But good story still needs good Action. Maybe one of the best villian or cool viallian they could do it the "robot" guy. He's the fierces character that Superman ever fought from the beginning. Make it more like Superman telling the story to us. Make it dramatic, make superman feel down on himself for not able to help every person that are in an accident event and needs help. Superman could be good with a real sad story with alot of action pack; like building falling down, cars getting torn up, damaging building. They had to find a good villain and make alot of fight screens with a short sad story to back up the movie. Superman fighting in the street is what they should do. And make superman look strong, like hitting walls, knocking door down. make him look like he could fight. More actions don't meant it has to be "R" rated, just don't put any blood to the action scene.
Lone on Aug 20, 2008
Has anyone seen the Superman Doomsday feature length animated movie??? We need that type of story with real people & computer imaging doing the effects.
Jon Banos on Aug 21, 2008
One of the best Superman stories hit a lot of the points about Clark/Supes, but we'llnever see it as a movie. that was the Kingdom Come mini series. I have a treatment for Supes, and would love to see how I could get it into the right hands. Most filmmakers and comic writers are overwhelmed with the job of writing Superman. when they get over it, there are some great stories out there to mine from, one of the most recent best was: "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?" http://superman.ugo.com/comics/superman_truthjustice/default.asp Done correctly, looking at the story the way Joe Kelly does, it would allow a filmmaker to set Clark in the right light, to explain his "why", and show what he can do. the treatment I had involved these pieces, and also held Brianiac, Metallo, Luther, a cameo by Batman... and yes, even Superman's kid. I'd love to see another Superman movie. I just want him to FIGHT someone.
CMK on Aug 21, 2008
Bryan Singer had the right scope YES! But Superman Returns was a love story finishing with a happy ending... for "women and children".. To top things off ~ Superman had a kid... for "women and children".. The true supporters are always let down because of the money!!!!! We want serious action and less love!!!! The Dark knight kicked arse because of that... I'm not a genius at film writing but I know what I like in comics books.. Film's are all about money these days!!! Not us!! How long did it take to release a new superman??? To redo the franchise once again means defeat ~ Warner brothers should pull there heads out of there arses and write a new script around the first film and not rely on the public to help as they don't listen to us.... . .
Jimmy on Aug 21, 2008
I read that The Legion of Superheroes is going to be in a episode of Smallville. Millar or Singer can have Superman meet The Legion. The Legion is in the same power level as The Justice League/Justice Society/Watchmen. They come for Superman's help against Mordru-The Merciless. Mordru has turn the people of Daxam into his personal army. Daxamites have Superman's powers but are not vulnerable to krytonite. This will cover many genres including comic books, magic, Time travel, and Space Travel. It will give Superman a battle with millions of Superman level adversaries. This will result in powerful space battles but with humanoids instead of Space Ships. In the end it will take a combination of all his powers including his super intellect to defeat Mordru. Mordru knows nothing about Superman since he doesn't exist in The 31st Century. Consequently; he doesn't know about his weaknesses to krytonite and magic. None the less ; Mordru is still a formidable foe. This kind of movie can attract comic book fans, Science Fiction Fans, Space Wars Fans, Fans of Magic, Superman Fans, Legion of Superheroes Fans and Time Travel Fans. Specifically, Star Trek Fans- Federation of Planets joined together for Exploration, Peace and Cooperation, space War /Star Wars Fans-The Emperor Palpatine -The Dark Side, Harry Potter Fans who like the darker side of The Potter Movies-The Dark Lord Voldemort, , Futuristic Technology for Science Fiction Fans and Fans of Time Traveling Machines. It covers many of the commentators wish for Superman to use all his powers to the Max against super powerful foes. It will knock DC's Super Surfer appearance in the Fantastic Form Movie off his board!
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 21, 2008
I meant Marvel's Super Surfer not DC's Super Surfer. lol
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 21, 2008
to 35 commenter, i agree! that was an interesting take.
Sa on Aug 21, 2008
Continuing: actually they should first do a SMALLVILLE movie with the original cast from the show Smallville. The show has been on so far for 7 seasons and still going strong with a great fanbase. The series show Clark's inner struggles along with his physical. Then a Superman movie as a follow up!
Sa on Aug 21, 2008
Sa I like your idea. Smallville has a large fan base as evident by their online sites and their Smallville Magazine. Even though I have never liked the George Reeves take with the krytonian crystal Fortress of Solitude and the Smallville take that green krytonite gives humans super powers;#81 reminded me of Action Comics change to the world of George Reeves. Superman Comics even mentioned a future introduction of Chloe into The DC Superman book. I have always liked Tom Welling as Clark/Supeboy and the actors that play Chloe, Lois Lane, Kara/Supergirl and lex Luther. As anyone who read Superboy and Superboy and the legion of Superheroes; it was they who taught Clark Kent/Superboy how to use his powers.My plot for a Superman movie can be tweaked for a Smallville Movie. The introduction of the legion of Superheroes and the transformation of Clark Kent/Superboy into a professional Superhero.Please see my comments #95. In The midst of his training; Mordru and The Daxamites come into the picture. Even though his training is incomplete; he joins The legion in Their biggest battle. After the Battle is won; Clark Kent dons his Superboy Costume and an opportunity opens for more movies where Superboy grows into Superman. He travel to metropolis where his relationship with Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen and Chloe continue to grow. The Second movie can continue where the first one left off. The planet is invaded by Mongul and War World and Superman and The world prepare for the onslaught. This is where his heroic friends from The Smallville Series return to help Superman and Earth. Green Arrow, The Flash, The Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Cyborg and Black Canary. Together they take on War World with The help of Earth's Defenses led by General Lane(Lois Lane's Father) Superman takes on Mongul and without holding back his punches and with the lessons that he learned from The Legion lashes out with heat vision, Super breath that serves as a freezing weapon, a weapon to deprive an opponent of oxygen and to create winds more powerful then any Super hurricane. It is a violent confrontation that shatters asteroids. However when Mongul temporarily makes it to Earth's cities; Superman punches him hard enough and expertly enough to knock him into a non-populated part of the Earth where The Fight Shatters Mountains and Trees. Eventually; he beats Mongul.His Super heroic friends and the Earth's Combined International Military Force defeats War World. The Earth proclaims Superman and his friends as The Defenders of Earth. After the battle is over and The Super Heroes are about to go their separate ways; Superman admits that after his seeing both what The Legion of Superheroes did to save the future and what his Super Heroic friends did to help him save the Earth; he can't do it alone. He admits that his super friends especially Green Arrow were right all along. One superhero can't do it alone but a group of Super heroes can do it together. Green Arrow reminds him that the seven of them along with The International Earth Military Forces just barely defeated Mongul and War world. He believes that there are probably more people like them.He mentions The Legendary Figure in Gotham called Batman. Aquaman mentions The Legendary Amazons in an Island that he thinks is off the coast of Greece behind a Mist. The Martian Manhunter also tells them of The Planet OA home to an intergalactic police force. Superman decides to investigate these legends and divides his team into three search parties. The Martian Manhunter will search for OA. Superman will stay on Earth to protect it alone until the others report their findings. The 2nd group made up of Green Arrow and Black Canary will travel to Gotham to find out if this Batman really exists. The 3rd Party made up of Aquaman, The Flash and Cyborg will see if the island Aquaman believes is the legendary Island of Amazons exits.The Second Superman movie ends with a War and ends with a search for what will become The Justice League. The Smallville inspired Superman movie ends and The Next DC Movies will be followed: the third and final Nolan/Batman Movie followed By The Wonder Woman Movie, The Green Lantern Movie and The Justice league of America movie sometime in 2014. We won't have to worry about Smallville The TV Series since I read that the 2008 season beginning this fall is their last season. The Smallville Movies can follow in 2009 and 2010. The other movies can be done between 2011 and 2014.lol
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 22, 2008
Continue from Superman Returns and bring in one of the best comic stories ever: Death of Superman. Technology can handle doing Doomsday and after a incredible movie like that you could take the Movie Superman Storyline anywhere. You can bring Superman back or spawn off other movies like the comics did (except no Steel 2).
Scotty Gressard on Aug 22, 2008
http://www.man-of-steel-movie.webs.com In an effort to bring a Superman film to the bigscreen that is faithful to the character.
Citizen-of-Metropolis on Aug 22, 2008
I think Superman is washed up. But if they must do another film they need to adapt to new times. 1.He needs a mask...I'm not really buying people not knowing his identity just cause he takes off his glasses and put a little gel in his hair! 2. New Villians. Battling Lex is getting old! 3. He needs flaws or some type of bad traits. The "Mr.Perfect" role doesnt really fly anymore!
Ohio Knight on Aug 23, 2008
make him dark. SR was bad because it was made 4 the geeks. TDK was good because it was made 4 everyone.
xXx on Aug 23, 2008
Unfortunately; Donner's Superman movies and Singer's Superman movie are movies for another time. A time when people were not so cynical and jaded . All the commentators that believe that Superman has to be darker for this generation of movie goers are right. If you try to repeat Donner's or Singer's Superman; it will be just a movie for The 12 and under crowd. However; if you want it to succeed; it will have to be made for the 13 year and over crowd. Consequently; rebooting Superman is the correct choice. He will not be as dark as The Dark Knight but he has to be at least like Snyder's Watchmen. It must involve more cynicism, violence and jadedness then the previous films. Time can't be wasted on Superman's and Lois Lane's love life. The action must start immediately and mustn't stop until the end. The villain must be at least as powerful as Superman. However; not powerful enough to beat him. The commentators have mentioned many of Superman's Rogue's Gallery that fit the role. However; It can't be Lex Luther. It has to be a villain That The Combined Military Forces of Earth can't even slow down. Finally; it must be hand to hand combat that shatters buildings, mountains and is unforgettable. It must make the audience react in the same way audience's react to violent football , boxing and wrestling matches. The audience must become so involved that they forget it's only a movie. Then and only Then can a new franchise be born.
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 24, 2008
I remember some time ago when John Byrne rewrote Superman in the comics and downgraded his powers. This was the single greatest thing they ever did, I can't recall all the stories but they were grittier more real stories where Superman had to break a sweat. See: The Man of Steel #1, July 1986. This version of superman became the basis of the Lois & Clark TV show where Clark wasn't so much of a geek as the Richard Donner movies. The Key in all of this is that Superman became a much more real character with downgraded powers and we even get to see him bleed. I don't have the actual comic but there was an issue where superman fights metallo the android with the kryptonite power source and supes get beaten to a pulp and not only that his costume is shredded and torn in various places. I think everyone looking for a darker storyline is missing the point, TDK was great not just because it was dark but because it made it real. Think of the James Bond films prior to Daniel Craig's movie and notice how you hardly never saw Bond bleed, it was actually a shock to see Bond bleeding in Casino Royale with blod all over his tux, but what that did for the audience is make them feel that this could happen. Singers Superman was basically a self indulgent take on Donners movies and the same mistakes that those movies eventually did. When I saw the Matrix Reloaded, i remarked to a friend that there was no way that Superman could be as cool as Neo, when in fact Neo was basically a homage to Superman and when I saw S-Returns I felt I was right. The trick of the Batman films and even Spiderman was the fact that their abilitie are limited to a certain extent and thats the same reason why Bond is much more interesting now because he has to depend on his will and determination to get himself out of tough situations and not gadgets. If they reboot Superman they should limit his powers and not make him all powerful conquering messiah that we saw in S-Returns as that simply won't work. Jeff
Jeff on Aug 24, 2008
Okay everybody get ready to laugh! Back in 96 I wanted to write SUPERMAN REBORN(I'm a screenwriter) and me and the wife decided on Keanu Reeves as The Man Of Steel because he was hot off of SPEED right? So Reeves is the son of Superman Christopher Reeves and Lois Lane(Margot Kidder) okay? Reeves is NOT a newspaper reporter in my script! Instead, he is a professor of Physics TOTALLY UNAWARE that he is indeed "blessed" with super powers until Christopher Reeves(in a cameo) tells him who HE really is! Okay so far? So we meet up with Lex Luthor Gene Hackman(also in a cameo) who is DYING in an iron lung machine. His son is Lex Luthor Jr.(just like in the comic books) to have been played by none other than-drumroll please-Tom Cruise! Okay? So Junior gets tired of sitting around waiting for his "old man" to kick off so he does the unthinkable and unplugs the tank! Nice kid huh? Junior(Cruise)then assumes total control of LEXCORP INT and decides he wants to run for Mayor of Metropolis on his way to The White House! Lady Maxima(Nicole Kidman,Mrs. Cruise at the time) comes to planet Earth in search of "the perfect man!" In one hillarious scene Lady Maxima(Kidman)shows up at a secluded home in Bel-Air. She rings the doorbell and a beefy pre-Governor Arnold Schwarzanegger opens the door! Lady Maxima hands Ahnold a YELLOW PAGES phone directory and instructs him to rip it in half because he was Mr. Olympia several times over! Ahnold can't rip the book!!! "Wimp!" says Maxima and leaves, rather disappointed. Maria Shriver pokes her head out(in a cameo) "Who was that dear?" Funny stuff right? So one day some bank robbers terrorize Metropolis and Superman Keanu springs into action. Maxima watches with great interest. She has found her man so she and her goons kidnap Keanu and take him back to her planet where Superman becomes her "slave of passion!" like in the comic book story. Long story short, Lex Luthor Jr. runs Metropolis with an iron glove. He has teamed up with Doctor Vandal Savage(Alan Rickman) to create their own "superman" and the result is BLACK ADAM(Wesley Snipes)! Superman must escape Maxima and return to Earth for an ultimate battle with Lex Luthor Jr., Vandal Savage and Black Adam and return his beloved Metropolis to the people! There! That was my IDEA for Superman but SMALLVILLE came along in 2001 followed several years later by SUPERMAN RETURNS which tanked. Truth be told, I think SUPERMAN has been exhausted! My wife has always loved Wonder Woman. I tried to come up with a decent script but Wonder Woman is just so lame and gay! LOL! Look what happened to SUPERGIRL and CATWOMAN! They bombed! And as for THE SANDMAN he really is complex and hard to decipher for the silver screen. BUT look at what The Nolans did with Batman! They revived a dead franchise. So never say never!
Tony on Aug 24, 2008
i would love to see it go into a darker path I would love for the writers of both Batman Begins And The Dark Knight To write this i would love for a new cast new director Superman should be played by Jim Strauss or Tom Welling Louis Lane a dark hair Scarlett Johanson Lex Luther Cant Replace Kevin Spacey Director Either Peter Berg I really Want Christopher Nolan To direct but he was about to turn down The Dark Knight So im guessing that he is picky another Zack Sniter if not maybe just maybe Micheal Bay cause i really liked the Island I want badass action and non of that chick flick superhero movie crap like in superman returns BUT MOST OF ALL GREAT ACTING AND AMAZING STORY LINES AND SCREEN PLAY AND GREAT DELIEVERY
Darren on Aug 24, 2008
I think Superman is in dire need of a reboot. Firstly , eliminate the entire cast of Superman Returns and keep Bryan Singer far away from it. Get an actor for Superman who is probably in his early-mid thrities with a greater physical build and get an actress for Lois Lane who has that sensual cynicism that Margot Kidder had (Kate Bosworth was horrible). I think that more people are losing interest in Superman because he's so overpowered that he never has to struggle with anything. What Nolan did for Batman was show a character who is flawed and troubled but not in an emo way, someone who we can relate to. The audience can't relate to someone when bullets bounce off their eye!!! Superman Returns was so boring and what the new film needs is more action but not braindead type of action. The series needs to start over and free itself of the past continuity like Batman Begins did. Superman's powers also need to seriously be toned down, make it so that he can't lift things that are enormously heavy (or at least he struggles to lift it) and there are tons of things he's weak against other than Kryptonite such as gases, electricity, drowning and most importantly he can be attacked psychologically. The series also needs to use a different villain other than Lex Luthor, he's appeared in 4 of the 5 Superman films and he's gotten too played out, he can be reintroduced in a later sequel but not in the first film. I think they could really use Braniac, he could perfectly use his intellect to exploit Superman's weaknesses and push him to the edge. Superman also needs to be darker but by darker I don't mean he's pulling guns out on people, I mean he's more realistic and flawed. The origin also needs to be retold in a modern setting, The original film "jumped" a lot when showing Clark Kent's past and the origin could be better fleshed out in the new film. We know that pretty much the whole world knows Superman's origins but the new film could add a new unique touch. What if Superman was really sent to conquer Earth, not save it? That would be a gutsy and interesting approach.
SlashBeast on Aug 25, 2008
I've always believed that Villains make the superhero's a success. All the Superman Villains suck, so. Superman should just stay dead. Perhaps the creation of a NEW superhero? Not a new Superman but how about they stop living in the past. People are willing to accept new superheroes. The T.V. show Heroes was popular for that exact same reason. (Even though most of those were stolen ideas. 😉
HektikLyfe on Aug 25, 2008
I just remembered a thread the comic book explored for awhile in the late 90's where Lois and Clark are married and Superman's powers begin to change unexpectedly. He ends up being pure energy and has to learn how to control and manipulate his new powers. Throw in some Nolan-esque moral quandries and voila we may have a Superman worthy of the 21st century. I also agree that killing Superman off at the movies end is a stroke of genius - is there were a director daring enough to do it.
Illbeyoumuse on Aug 26, 2008
#25 was right. In Superman 2, Clark kissed Lois on the lips and she forgot about his secret. #42 must be high. i watched Superman 2 on earth. Those who disagree with me & #25 must have watched Superman 2 in the 'Phantom Zone'. Rubinov, please give mark Millar's concept a chance. Dish Luthor and flesh out Braniac & Mettallo.
Shawn Gregory on Aug 26, 2008
I am at a loss for casting on this one but hear me out I think Michael Bay should direct the Superman movie if they ever do another one because the FX were awesome in ARMAGEDDON and I loved the production design of TRANSFORMERS! Just keep him away from writing the movie! LOL!
Tony on Aug 26, 2008
Oh yeah! I asked my daughter about another Superman movie. She loves SMALLVILLE. I suggested SUPERMAN REBORN for the title. She made a face and suggested THE MAN OF STEEL!!! GOD she is awesome! And she's only 12 to boot! LOL! THE MAN OF STEEL. A Michael Bay Film. There you go!
Tony on Aug 26, 2008
As for the villains. I agree that Lex Luthor is played out. I could see Robin Williams playing The Toyman. Taye Diggs as Black Adam. I don't know yet who could play The Parasite but I would love to see Superman tangle with him. Besides, didn't Parasite KILL Supes in the comic book world? Also as a side note I once read a story arc where The Joker came to Metropolis and messed with S Man! It was awesome to say the least and it was funny to see Joker messing with The Man Of Steel! After all, I think The Bat deserves a break from the clown! Let someone else deal with him for a change.
Tony on Aug 26, 2008
The following are quotes from the August 22, 2008 article in The Wall Street Journal: Quote#1, " Warner Bros. also put on hold plans for another movie starting multiple superheroes -- known as "Batman vs. Superman " --after the $215 million "Superman Returns," which had disappointing box-office returns, didn't please executives. "Superman didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to," says Mr. Robinov. "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had "Superman ' worked in 2006,we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."Quote#2, With "Batman vs. Superman" and "Justice League" stalled, Warner Bros. has quietly adopted Marvel's model of releasing a single film for each character, and then using those movies and their sequels to build up to a multicharacter film." Along those lines. we have been developing every DC character that we own," Mr Robinov says. Quote#3, Like the recent Batman sequel--which has become the highest-grossing film of the year thus far--Mr. Robinov wants his next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as "The Dark Knight." Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.DC properties."We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it,"he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well. Quote#4, The studio is set to announce its plans for future DC movies in the next month. For now, though, it is focused on releasing four comic-book films in the nest three years, including a third Batman film, a new film reintroducing Superman, and two movies focusing on other DC Comics characters. Movies featuring Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow, and Wonder Woman are all in Active development. Many of the studio's directors credit Mr.Robinov for taking Warner Bros,' films in a darker and deeper direction. Christopher Nolan, who directed "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight," says Mr. Robinov " really encouraged the logic of the villain" from "Batman Begins." That led to focusing heavily on the Joker in the sequel. "At the script stage, Jeff really wanted us to be very clear on the Joker's lack of purpose,"he says. Mr Jeff Robinov is The President of Warner Bros. Pictures Group. Final Quote, Mining the comic-book franchise is central to the success of Warner Bros.'strategy. Its lineup of"Tent poles"--Hollywood speak for big movies that are the foundation of a studio's slate--has thinned. Warner Bros, has been slow to capitalize on DC, and it now faces a rival in Marvel Entertainment Inc.'s Marvel Studios, the company behind box-office gusher"Iron Man." The Article in The Wall Street Journal is titled, Warner Bets on Fewer, Bigger Movies. I hope this adds some reality to our comments.lol
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 26, 2008
Hey Ivan! Good to see you man! Interesting article! After DARK KNIGHT those pussies over at Marvel had better reckon with DC Comics, Warner Brothers and Legendary Pictures. I don't know about another Superman movie or a Wonder Woman movie for that matter but I will tell you this much THE WATCHMEN is going to kick serious ass when it hits theatres next year! HOO-RAA! And can I get an Amen up in here? Also, I think a TV Show about The Bat on HBO would be awesome! Hallelujah brothers and sisters! Brother Aaron has spoken! A HA A HO A HEE HEE TA TA HO HO HO!
Tony on Aug 26, 2008
As much as i enjoyed the superman returns movie i think i got caught up with the idea that it was superman back on the screen. Lets start with the plot which was to basically say he is back and he can lift stuff as he is strong BUT where was the emphasis on this character, we didnt see much of his flaws or his emotions but even when we saw his weakness to kryponite he still managed to lift an island full of the stuff (what the) and the villain was not right or big enough. Acting on Brandon's behalf, for a guy picked on his similarities to Christopher Reeve i think was wrong, i feel sorry for him as it was not his fault at all plus he did ok and he worked hard to get into shape for the role. Maybe a reboot is best, i wanna see metallo which we will see superman (metallo posing as him) turn evil and kill and push those close away plus lose trust from the world, we could have darkseid where he joins him but then decides to pull the plug and fight darkseid and struggle to regain the love of the people which then we bring DOOMSDAY which is easily the greatest, if you saw the recent animation film then you would see why. HE dies trying to save the people he loves which people then realise what they lost through superman. As for Lex luthor, he should be this background character, not the main focus of villain. Maybe we could have a follow up but its got to be much more intense, serious, more focus and fragile parts of this superman, however im concerned with the superman has a son emphasis, that was a bad move and way to soon. My conclusion is... semi reboot, lets see darkseid and brainiac in the next installment which will make us see more sides of superman with his evil and fragile situation and then lets have Doomsday with him maybe killing those close to superman and him die killing doomsday but maybe finish with metallo created by lex, to which the superman is back as he does not die but apparently it takes him a long time to recover. But i wanna see DOOMSDAY
Adam on Aug 27, 2008
Adam Clark Kent and Lois Lane got married and honeymooned at Niagara Falls in Superman II. Remember? SUPERMAN RETURNS is supposed to have been set seven years AFTER Superman II! That's why the "son" angle. Superman III and IV have been disavowed because they were so bad!
Tony on Aug 27, 2008
got ya but the second was a bit silly like the bit where he throws his superman crest at one of zods men and it was like a towel being wrapped around him in the fortress, cheers for that by but the 3rd and especially the 4th was a disgrace i agree. Would you say bring on the doomsday or wait??
Adam on Aug 28, 2008
DOOMSDAY would fit in with the TERMINATOR and TRANSFORMERS crowd and I think people are tired of Lex Luthor. Therefore DOOMSDAY would be a nice change of change. Either that OR adapt THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN saga for the big screen!
Tony on Aug 28, 2008
i think they should look at the cartoon movie doomsday and use some stuff from that if they do that would be a hit
raider98 on Aug 29, 2008
Tony , great to hear from you again. I will make a comment later. Right now, I'm too tired and I'm going to catch me a nap.
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Aug 29, 2008
Hey Ivan keep your powder dry,your pecker wet and your men safe and I will talk to you later. Watch your back,bro! People here are talking Superman movies but I don't see it happening too soon! Besides,THE DARK KNIGHT is WB's Golden Nugget right now! They're more concerned there.
Tony on Aug 30, 2008
tashawnda on Aug 30, 2008
A darker superman is a good idea. Alot of people are saying superman should be light, and i agree with that. But the last supermans were light, and an out of control, superman would be the stuff. Look what happened when darkseid killed one of his friends in the animation? He beat the crap out of that tank and went after him. I think the villains that could seriously harm him are Brainiac, darkseid, and my favorite, Metallo. :} i would love to see Metallo, hes a bada**.
Moviefan on Aug 30, 2008
oops. i forgot doomsday. sorry. :}.
Moviefan on Aug 30, 2008
oh by the way Tony, Watchmen IS going to kick a**! Amen! YEAAAAA!
Moviefan on Aug 30, 2008
Moviefan on Aug 30, 2008
why not do "superman: red son" movie?
mopardevil on Aug 31, 2008
All of the Superman movies have been horrible, including the original. A complete reboot would be the only way to fix it. Superman's weakness is that he is all-powerful and keeps to keep it in check so as not to cause more damage than he is trying to prevent. If Lois was falling off a skyscraper and he flew up and just caught her in mid-air, she would break in half or be crushed. He has to realize that he has to match her speed and catch her correctly. Man of Steel - Woman of tissue. Superman is a big boy scout, believing in the true ideals of Truth, Justice, and the American Way, not falling into the current political corruption of what those things mean.
AZComicGeek on Aug 31, 2008
AZComicGeek How can you say that? The ORIGINAL Superman is a CLASSIC you retard! If it weren't for the original would we have THE DARK KNIGHT or any of its predecessors??? For that matter,Superman II was decent. III and IV sucked. SUPERMAN RETURNS was decent! And you consider yourself a comic book buff??? Pull your head out of your ass dude! PS SMALLVILLE sux!
Tony on Aug 31, 2008
just end it already... two more movies. Superman with Bizzaro and Superman with Doomsday. I think thats the only thing everyone wants to see.
spanx on Sep 1, 2008
I disagree, I loved the original two Superman movies but even if they weren't made it doesn't mean there would be NO comic book movies to have ever come out, they would have been made eventually.
SlashBeast on Sep 2, 2008
Slash Warner Brothers spent $50 million on the original Superman. Now,back in 1978 that was a lot of money. That was twice as much as it costed to make Star Wars. Had Star Wars failed,that would have been financial ruin for 20th Century Fox and George Lucas would have been run out of town! Ditto with Superman. WB was gambling on The Man Of Steel. Now,suppose Superman had failed. Warners would go bankrupt and people would be going who the hell is Christopher Reeve? See? That's my point. If Superman had failed do you honestly think that Batman(1989) would have seen the light of day? Think before you answer. And remember,Hollywood is fickle! Look what happened to the Hollywood Musical and The Westerns!
Tony on Sep 3, 2008
I think they should just use Tom Welling to cast as Superman (for all of you who don't have a clue as to who Tom Welling is... watch Smallville). In my honest opinion, he plays the perfect part as Superman in the telelvision series so why not bring him in to play as Superman in the movies?
Chris on Sep 3, 2008
Because Chris when Hollywood makes a movie they think big. So they would rather go with a bigger name or a relative nobody rather than "a TV star" like Welling. That's just the nature of the beast. Besides Tom Welling's THE FOG remake was a total bust and execs look at shit like that!
Tony on Sep 4, 2008
please start all over from the beginning dont let bryan singer near the set or story he should change his name to doomsday cause he killed superman. did he also do xmen cause each one of those films sucked i spent 40 dollars to buy xmen part 3 collecters dvd i watched it once and gave it to my neighbors kid and around the same time i bought superman the dvd used for 15 dollars and after watching those movies i promised myself to never buy dvds again unless i see the movie first only then ill buy it i saw the dark knight already and i cant wait to buy the dvd so i can watch batman begins and the dark knight over and over again batman 1 and 2 were the greatest super hero movies i have ever seen in my life christopher nolan is the man and so is micheal bay my take on superman is that he should grow in front of our eyes as the most powerful thing in known existence and by this time we should know existence not that fag from superman returns making funny faces all the time but as long as u dont let singer near the new one i guarantee is counldnt be much worst
danny on Sep 7, 2008
X-Men 3 was corny trash, the first 2 were far from masterpieces but were nonetheless great films. The problems with them is that they should have just been titled "Wolverine" because apparently Singer forgot that there were other X-Men besides him. Superman Returns was also horrible because it was just so boring. I was watching it with my family and everyone was practically falling asleep. Superman needs to be reinvented (loosely) for modern audiences who expect their heroes to be more conflicted and relatable. Superman's powers DO need to be toned down, make him more vulnerable to add more conflict. The new film also needs to amp up the action, I realized that in Superman Returns he didn't even throw a punch at anyone!!!! He was just lifting things the whole time. I have high hopes for the reboot though, they've got huge opportunities to reinvigorate the world's first superhero.
SlashBeast on Sep 7, 2008
I really hate the reboot term they are now using when doing movies. Anyhow I agree they really need to bring out the big guns on superman. More serious villains, more dc universe connections, serious tone and more action.
DJ SID on Sep 7, 2008
danny; I agree with you 100%. First; contrary to popular belief Singer's X-Men 1 and 2 were worst then X-men 3. X-Men 3 was directed by Brett Ratner. He took over when Singer dropped out to direct Superman Returns. The film is loosely based on two X-Men comic book story arcs : Chris Claremont's and artist John Byrnes's " Dark Phoenix Saga " in The Uncanny X-Men and writer Joss Whedon's and artist John Cassaday's six issue " Gifted " arc in Astonishing X-men. Every one that saw all three films including myself decided that of the three X-Men Movies ; Brett Ratner's was the best of the three. Of course ; we don't mean it was great; it was just the best of the three. Then Bryan Singer went on to Superman where he utterly destroyed the Superman Franchise. I also agree that Superman should be The most powerful alien on the planet earth. The biggest mistake contrary to popular opinion was to depower him. Before they depowered him ; he took a nuclear missile hit and walked out of the crater without so much as a scratch. I don't understand why so many of these commentators want to see a depowered Superman. His title is Superman not almost Superman. He should be a modern mythological icon. There are plenty of Supervillians who are at his power level including Doomsday and Darkseid. P.S. Tony; It's great to be on another thread with you. Give them hell ! Again it's time for me to catch some shot eye. We were out really late yesterday and today at day break it starts all over again. lol
Ivan A. Arcaya,Sr. on Sep 7, 2008
First off, I think Superman Returns was a huge disappointment, for several reasons. First, the actors (with the exception of Spacey as Luthor) were wrong. Brandon Routh may be a decent actor, and I know that Singer was trying to capture lightning in a bottle twice by bringing in an unknown (like Reeve was for the first Superman) to play the part. However, Routh does not have the depth to play this character. The reason everyone is still harping on Christopher Reeve 30 years later is because he INHABITED that part--he WAS Superman. Equally, Heath Ledger's Joker was the same--he WAS the Joker, not some actor playing a part, and that's why everyone remembers it. Kate Bosworth as Lois was the biggest goof Singer made--Lois is supposed to be a pit bull in a reporter's outfit, Superman's (and Clark's) equal in every way, his balancing force. Kate Bosworth was about as intimidating as my next-door neighbor's cat, and made a very forgetful performance. She could have been a piece of furniture for all the emotion she put into the role. Second, the score. Raise your hands if you don't hear John Williams' score from Superman every time you see the character. Anyone? I understand if you don't want to use the same score, or the same conductor, to go your own direction. But you need a score equal to the character it's supporting. Superman is grand, a god in red, yellow and blue. Using trumpets and horns, cymbals and drums, John Williams conveyed that grandeur in a way that made everyone who saw Superman know he was coming, announcing his entrance like a king at court. The new score is bland, boring. A few times, you almost think, OK, here comes the horns and the drums, they're going to do it!, but no...it drops off every time. Basically, you had a forgetful movie full of forgetful actors with a forgetful score, and that's why Superman Returns didn't work. Bryan Singer did a great job with the X-Men franchise, and frankly, I think he should have stuck with that. I say start over, replace the cast and director, and come back with a powerful story that hits physically as well as emotionally. Basically, The Dark Knight in red and blue. The Kryptonite thing has been played to death, in all 5 installments of this franchise--it's time to try a different tactic. I think the Doomsday storyline would be a great one to play, though it may be difficult to encompass the whole story and do it right in a film under 2 1/2 hours. However, if you leave out the whole "Reign Of The Supermen" storyline, and just focus on Superman vs. Doomsday, use the idea touched on in the comics about Doomsday being an ultimate weapon created on Krypton long ago and buried on Earth, give Superman a real challenge, and do the character justice, you'll find that the last movie's naysayers will come around. You can look at the recent history of comic-book movies, and see that when a property is taken seriously, the people will come. The Dark Knight is the ultimate example--who would have thought a year ago that a comic book movie would take in $500 million in the U.S. and close to $900 million worldwide? I think those who say relegate Lois to the background are wrong--they need to beef her up, both the character and the actress playing her. Superman's love for Lois is legendary, one of the truest love stories from the comic book world, and she is the reason he continues to fight on, even when things seem hopeless. That could become an integral part of the plot, especially if he fights Doomsday. Also, look at the special effects, especially when it comes to Superman's powers. I understand you don't want the thin laser beams he had in the original movies for his heat vision, but I also think the way they did it in this latest movie was wrong. You need something more solid-looking, conveying the power behind it. Think Cyclops in X-Men. Also, the flying sequences--you need to work on those. Other than the saving-the-plane sequence towards the beginning, for the most part, Superman's flying sequences were fake-looking, especially him flying through the clouds at the end. I've seen smoother edits of flying on Heroes than they had in Superman Returns, and they didn't have a $250 million budget. Brandon Routh looked like he was flying on wires, which I know he WAS, but I shouldn't be looking at the finished product and have it LOOK like he was. Lastly, have fun with this. Look at the Dark Knight--great story, great actors who all inhabited their roles perfectly, dark imagery. The one thing everyone brings up is that they took Batman to the edge of compromising his morals by having the Joker see how far he could push him. Now, Batman's already dark and morally borderline--he has always flirted with the dark side of life and been colored by it. Yet see how great it turned out, and how well it did with audiences? Superman should be even more fun to take to that edge, exactly BECAUSE he's so much further from it. He's always right, does the right thing, is the world's biggest Boy Scout, etc. Now pit him against Doomsday or something akin to the villains from Superman 2, a character (or characters) who will force him to confront his morals and face his worst fears--does defeating this enemy mean I have to kill? Could I lose all that I hold dear in the process? Can I delve into my darker side, and expect to not be changed by it? These were the types of questions Dark Knight encompassed, and why it worked so perfectly. Superman is the ultimate good guy, who is always above the corruption and filth, never truly compromised by it, who never kills under any circumstances. That dichotomy is what made the first two Superman movies work, and the last two Batmans, and not just movies. The Kingdom Come limited series in comics played that light-and-dark relationship to the hilt, and became one of the most popular and well-loved storylines in comic history. If you want to bring the viewers back, and put out the best movie possible, you have to be willing to take things further than you have before. It can be done, but I don't think Bryan Singer is the one to do it. I would say bring in Christopher Nolan, but I know doing two series of movies that huge is impossible for any one person to take on. However, you need someone with his type of vision and willingness to take risks and push the envelope. The studios showed that respect for Batman and Iron Man, and it paid off for them in spades. How can a character like Superman--one of the most beloved and popular comic book characters of all time--be worth any less?
Andy on Sep 7, 2008
Brandon Routh wasn't playing Superman, he was plying Christopher Reeves as Superman. I think everyone is jumping the shark and saying "throw Doomsday in it" but aren't taking the time to consider the placement of the character. I think it's a bit early to have such a major presence as Doomsday in the first film of the proposed trilogy. The first film is most likely an origin story and needs to firmly establish Superman's character in this new universe and Doomsday's scenario would be too much for a film like that. Some people are even saying that they should kill off Superman in the first movie, are you kidding me??? I think a villain like Brainiac would work better for the first film.
SlashBeast on Sep 7, 2008
Wow! All the feedback on Superman! I agree. Bryan Singer should stick to The X Men franchise although Halle Berry went on record saying "There will be no more X-Men movies!" And Wolverine with Hugh Jackman is in post production so maybe she was right after all! No big loss really. I'm not too crazy about The X-Men. Hell,I thought their video game you kinow the one where they team up to fight Galactus THAT should have been in the fucking movie! Oh well what can you do? For the record Daredevil was decent. Ghost Rider sucked. Iron Man looked interesting. Heard The Hulk sucked bad. LOL! Oh Marvel you guys got to get it right! Back to The S Man,bring in Michael Bay to direct the damn movie. Guy's on a kaiser roll after TRANSFORMERS rocked movie theatres! Second,bring back JOHN WILLIAMS the man behind JAWS,STAR WARS,INDIANA JONES,HARRY POTTER and of course SUPERMAN! After all,didn't GEORGE LUCAS use Williams' music for all six of his Star Wars movies? Williams is the man! Danny Elfman comes in a close second! Third,let's cut poor Brandon Routh a break already! Poor guy had to be blessed with the late Christopher Reeves' good looks! That's why they picked him! Routh looks like a younger Chritopher Reeves! And he is NOT a bad actor so you assholes lay off him already! Put up or shut up I always say! Fourth,I agree on Kate Bosworth. She's cute,perhaps too cute and she is fuckable(is that really a word? LOL)just too bad she had to be so fucking bland but doesn't that leave the writers to blame? They could have made her tough as nails like the now insane(too bad)Margot Kidder! Fifth,no more Lex Luthor! He's been played out. Bring in his son like in the comic books not his goofy ass nephew(Jon Cryer)from the forgotten Superman IV! Have Tom Cruise play Lex Luthor Jr. Why Mister My Ass Is Crazy Cruise? Go look at a ish with Junior and see why! Sixth,okay we get it! No more gay ass Kryptonite! Been done to death! Right? So bring on Parasite to suck up Supes' strength! He drains S Man in a Royal Battle with lamp posts,stop signs,mailboxes,etc. They fuck up the city and Supe goes into hiding after getting his ass beat like a big brass drum! Junior takes over Metropolis as its Governor and announces his bid for The US Senate and his aspirations to be President(so he can push that fabled Red Button on us)! Have The Super One fight someone like Black Adam! Now that would be tight! Make it like that WWF brawl from Superman II! That shit was righteous and that's the way you do it! DO NOT bring in Bizarro! That dude's a fucking retard! And no Supergirl or Astro The Super Dog! That shit is just as gay as SMALLVILLE! LOL! Well that's my take on The Super Dude! Hey Ivan good to hear from you again! Here I am to give em hell like you said! LOL! I chased away naysayers like LW,DJO,Kelly and many others! I will not be vanquished. LOL! GOD speed to you and your men! Blow up Iraq already so you can home to your friends and family. Keep safe bro! Peace. Out!
Tony on Sep 7, 2008
One word. Lobo it solves all the issues of good bad comedy love whatever. also lobo rulz
dr0wwarr10r on Sep 7, 2008
ok i recently wrote swaying towards reboot but im saying continue with returns, we had his return and it was just a return, tying up a story so people know whats going on but now the next is where they get it right, even bryan singer said he wants it so people know he is back which will also bring villains wanting to test their might against this guy.....COME ON warner brothers!!!
adam on Sep 8, 2008
Nothing. I'll stick to watching "Superman: The Movie".
angela on Sep 8, 2008
it just did not make sense to have lex luthor lay the smack-down on superman in the first movie. what a wimp. lois lane was her usual stupid bitch self. she's shacking up with her boss, typical female!!!! Superman should date a real hottie now. how about dwayne "the rock" johnson and any hollywood bimbo for lois. by the way, the dark knight was the most kick ass movie ever!!!!!
Darrell on Sep 8, 2008
Lex Luthor is done to death for christ sake... Don't you guys read comics and what about DOOMSDAY!!! For the love of superman if a studio or director wants at least some respect then get off your A** and do some homework otherwise feel the hatred. NO MORE LEX LUTHOR!!! Oh and what about BRAINIAC (another superman villain)?!
Superman fan on Sep 8, 2008
How about Robin Williams as The Toyman? That role is tailor-made for him!
Tony on Sep 8, 2008
Dwayne Johnson as Black Adam? Jon Cena as The Parasite? The Rock vs. Superman would put asses in seats. Cena vs. Man Of Steel would be interesting. Also,I think Edge or Chris Jericho would make good villains. Those guys exemplify evil! And not Edge from U2! LOL!
Tony on Sep 8, 2008
Singer set the tone. let's let him raise the bar like he did with x2.
mista dude on Sep 8, 2008
Mista Dude,Warners lost half its money on Returns! That's why people are saying bring Michael Bay aboard. Bay made a shit load of money with Transformers last summer. Hollywood execs,all they see is $. How much money will this movie make? That's the bottom line for them. After Batman Returns failed to live up to 1989's Box Office Smash Hit Batman,director Tim Burton was replaced with Joel Schumacher. That's the way it goes in H-Wood. You make one "bomb" GOD help you! Singer dropped the ball,so to say,with Superman Returns when it failed to make its money back. Chris Nolan,on the other hand,is a GOD! The Dark Knight has grossed 512 million dollars to date in the United States alone. Singer is OUT. Nolan is IN. Will Michael Bay do Superman Movie? We'll just have to wait and see...
Tony on Sep 9, 2008
I grew up watching the christopher reeves versions of superman, and I still watch them to this day. We all as children would of dressed up and played as superman at some point in our lives.....im sure others still do! The superman franchise will always draw in people at the cinema, its a fact. Superman returns was lame and didnt thrill as well as the reeves versions for one superman would not take control of a spinning plane by holding on to a wing, yeah the plane was spinning but the reeves superman would fly underneath and guide it slowly back to earth. The scene was the best part of the movie and for me totally wrong. when roth reveals the emblem for the first time was a total sham, I had waited years to see transformation from clark to supes on the big screen...wasted. As for the next installment of the film. I would like to see a film dedicated to bizarro- same powers as supes without the morals- we can have some great fight scenes between the 2 - good vs evil. We can have lex luther invent a machine that zaps supes which brings out his darker alternative or a form a kryptonite. Supermans greatest enemy is himself, its exciting and leaves a nother movie for doomsday.
Steven Doherty on Sep 9, 2008
Re: #47 That's why we got in Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman with Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher.
angela on Sep 9, 2008
Thank you #67. Spider-Man did just fine. Dark Knight only surpassed the last Spider-Man movie by a few million. Let each hero stay true it's source. Batman's nickname is The Dark Knight. You can't take his moral theme away and bring it to other characters WHO ARE NOT BATMAN. TDK is based on Batman comics/graphic novels. Spider-Man is based on the Spider-Man comics/the animated series, so on and so fourth.
angela on Sep 9, 2008
Uh Angela you smoking crack or what? LOL! THE DARK KNIGHT beat Spiderpussy by 105 MILLION DOLLARS! Go back and check it out after pulling your head out of your ass!
Tony on Sep 9, 2008
after watching 300 for the 1000th time, I Think that DC and warner should snap up Zack Snyder for the job. lets be real people singer destroyed superman! If ou look at every other comic book movie thats been released in recent year they have hve all wiped the floor with Superman Returns. Look at 300 every single spartan looks like superman's superior which in all fearness shouldn't be the case, for god sake even batman looks stronger! Forget all that genetically strong stuff in the comics and cartoon superman's muscle mass looks intimidating brandons time should be up as well they need to remember that chris reeves played the charcter superman and that superman is not based on chris reeves. as for story there should be three superman movies. The Death of Superman, World Without a Superman and final The Return of Superman.
adam on Sep 9, 2008
I think Adam is onto something! That's of course if Warners ever decides to make another Superman movie! Right now they're too busy counting all that money that Batman and The Joker pulled in! Superman is out for now. Sorry,Supes. Right now it's all about THE BAT!
Tony on Sep 10, 2008
300 was terrible, all style with no substance, Superman needs a more competent director.
SlashBeast on Sep 10, 2008
Yeah but Slash this Snyder has appeal. My wife loved 300! Hell,she appreciated it more than I did! LOL! And that trailer for the upcoming WATCHMEN? Only one word comes to mind: WOW!!!
Tony on Sep 10, 2008
Spiderpussy? How childish. Either way, the gap wasn't significant whether you like it or not. In total, it's about 900 million worldwide. I've read the articles. And I do hope this bandwagon mentality fades out quickly because it's annoying.
angela on Sep 10, 2008
Hey Angela you don't like the bandwagon mentality? Then go back to your own site BITCH! You want childish? Suck my ass too while you're at it honey!
Tony on Sep 10, 2008
Wow, just wow. OK there dear, keep doing what you doing. Whatever makes you happy.
angela on Sep 11, 2008
Snyder can undoubtedly create some pretty visuals but when it comes to everything else then it doesn't match up. That's why I'm still concerned about the Watchmen movie and wont claim it's great or not until I actually see it. But I'll give Snyder the benefit of the doubt because I can see that he's intensely pationate about this and we're all hoping it will live up to our expectations.
SlashBeast on Sep 11, 2008
Dude 300 was a box office hit! What you got against Snyder anyway?? You better get used to that name because most likely THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is his! Frank Miller gave him the greenlight!
Tony on Sep 11, 2008
Even though I feel Bryan Singer would redeem himself, If Zack Snyder had a GOOD SCRIPT and most of all will emphasize STRONG CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. He would be the only man to reboot the franchise. Just imagine if the painterly like visual ways of this director could be married with the character development on par with Dark Knight, or Heat,Godfather, etc. And even more so, up against villans like Darksied and Braniac. OUT OF CONTROL......
jerimone wilson on Sep 11, 2008
I have nothing personal against Snyder, I just don't think he's a very good director. - The Dark Knight Returns is really coming to the big screen? I need to add that to my "must watch" list.
SlashBeast on Sep 12, 2008
I read that Snyder "bumped" into Frank Miller at San Diego's ComiCon. Snyder asked Miller about a film adaptation of the classic THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Miller replied: "Well,Zack! YOU can do it anytime you want!" So yeah,Snyder wants Miller's graphic novel brought to the screen BUT I think WB has told him to wait until their Dark Knight trilogy is completed. Everyone(myself included)wants a third movie BUT Nolan has yet to sign the contract. Bale,on the other hand,is 100% committed! STAY TUNED BAT FANS...
Tony on Sep 12, 2008
That'll be incredibly interesting, I'm wondering if the film adaption will take place in the same universe as Nolan's films???
SlashBeast on Sep 13, 2008
Most likely not since Bruce Wayne was pushing 60 in Dark Knight Returns!
Tony on Sep 14, 2008
If they do decide to keep it in the same universe then I suspect they'll have to cut out some aspects of the graphic novel such as Robin and maybe even Superman but it can still work to make a great film.
SlashBeast on Sep 14, 2008
BUT will it be live action or Anime?
Tony on Sep 14, 2008
While I would love to see a live action movie version of Dark Knight Returns directed by Zack Snyder,one has to wonder how well it would translate to the screen. One can't help but wonder if it would serve better in an Anime format. Right?
Tony on Sep 14, 2008
i think they should just forget about superman at the moment and do what every ones beem waiting for and do a superman and batman film
sam short on Sep 14, 2008
I think it could perfectly suit a live action film, the story is not really unbelievable, in fact it is one of the most realistic Batman stories around.
SlashBeast on Sep 15, 2008
Mickey Rourke as an aging Batman? Tim Curry as an over the hill Joker? Michael Madsen as a haggard Two-Face? Who would play the nubile Robin? Frank Miller to adapt his own novel?
Tony A. on Sep 15, 2008
Frank Miller played a hand in helping to adapt his other comics into film so I can't see why he wouldn't here.
SlashBeast on Sep 15, 2008
Wow we got off track here! This is a Superman thread not The Dark Knight Returns! LOL!
Tony A. on Sep 15, 2008
Lol, I was starting to think that too, oh well.
SlashBeast on Sep 17, 2008
Guess that sums up what people think about Supes huh?
Tony A. on Sep 18, 2008
I don't think that people have totally given up on Superman, I just think he needs to actually throw a punch and be more flawed to relate to audiences.
SlashBeast on Sep 28, 2008
LOL! The guy is made of steel! He's like a seven foot tall dildo! If he threw a punch,his fist would go through your chest!!! In Superman III,he turned evil and in Returns,he was lovesick. Those didn't work,though.
Tony on Oct 4, 2008
I think Superman has been overshadowed by The Dark Knight.
Tony on Oct 26, 2008
They need to save darkside for the justice league movie and bring in brainiac. Then if that does well. bring in Doomsday.
TIm on Nov 25, 2008
In order for a good turn for Superman, they have to completely reboot and start from the beginnig. Superman has to be more rugged and fierce; they need to stay away from the traditional slender geeking looking character...In the comics he's a lot more bigger and when he fights it needs to be more epic instead of the instant solution....Hope the Wachowski brothers can take over and do it properly!
Don on Mar 27, 2009
I absolutely agree with your opinion that the only person who really deserves making films about superheroes is Christopher Nolan and he definitely proved his skills in the Dark Knight. That was the film discovering global social problems and demonstrating the duality of the world and the whole human kind. A real masterpiece. I would be really glad to see The Superman performed by Chris too.
dildo on Jan 5, 2010
Wow, good question. DC should make him stronger and faster because I'm getting a bit tired of seeing kicked around so easliy by other villians so much and for the film, they need to realize that the fact is they seriously need to not only make this movie better than Superman returns, but far, far better. At this point, it's really not good enough to have a "good" Superman movie. What we need is a "spectacularly amazing" Superman movie that is much better in every way - much better storyline, script, plot, and able to have a good connection and can relate to the crowd and chemistry with both characters and audience and perhaps some wittiness and humor in the story not just cool special effects made to look and feel as accurate and real as possible from flying/superpowers special effects and seeing Supes punching and kicking ass and seeing many things being smashed in epic fights like in the episode "clash of the titans" where Superman fought Captain Marvel and where he unleashes his true power against Darkseid in the final episode in the animated Justice League Unlimited series and in Superman Doomsday - that kind of epicness, just to make my point. only done in live-action. Yeah, I know I'm a bit of a comic geek LOL. But as a Superman fan, it would mean a lot. And they have to keep true to the fact that the closer he get to the yellow sun, the more power he gains and the more amplified his powers are - fact, if he is to fly closer and closer towards or even into the yellow sun, can absorb enormous amounts of the sun's energy not only making him more powerful but able to reach very god-like levels and becoming faster than light.
Anthony on Aug 27, 2010
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