Clint Eastwood's New Film Titled Invictus, Out in December
Even though he had two separate films out last year, Clint Eastwood is still workin' hard, directing more movies, and he's got another one due out this December. The new project is his Nelson Mandela film starring Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon. In Contention's Kristopher Tapley was the first to report that the film had officially been titled Invictus, meaning Invincible in Latin. The film follows Mandela's attempt to use the 1995 Rugby World Cup to heal his nation following his release from prison, the fall of apartheid and his election as president of South Africa. And that title refers to a poem often recited by Mandela.
Invictus is a short poem by William Earnest Henley from 1875 and, as Tapley says, "was a great source of inspiration for the freedom fighter" because it speaks to the will to survive in the face of adversity. You can find the full poem at the bottom of the article on In Contention. Warner Brothers has set a December 11th release for Invictus in hopes of repeating the same success they had with Eastwood's Gran Torino, which made an incredible $148 million at the box office. The film play against Peter Jackson's The Lovely Bones, which also opens the same day in December. Both are expected to be big last-minute awards contenders.
Invictus was previously known as The Human Factor and is an adaptation of John Carlin's book titled "Playing the Enemy: Nelson Mandela and the Game That Made a Nation". We actually ran a few photos of Damon shooting some rugby scenes in South Africa back in March, but we haven't seen what Morgan Freeman looks like as Mandela yet. This is definitely a project we'll be keeping a close eye on and will let you know when we have more from. For now, Warner Brothers is planning a wide release for Invictus, but that could obviously change. Until we have more, head over to In Contention for the full story on the new title.
Reader Feedback - 138 Comments
Yes, But if you ask a New Zealand rugby fan why the South African team won the world cup, they will tell you of a woman called Suzie who was a waitress at the hotel the New Zealand team was staying at, and is widely believed to have poisoned the Kiwi's prior to the final.
cinemabandit on Jun 5, 2009
i met a south african who openly admits the fact they poisoned us in 95
Panneverlander on Jan 19, 2012
Absolute rubbish. NZ choked and could not see out the whole competition even though they had the most talented team in the whole world cup. 2011 was the first year i truly felt the all blacks would unfortunately not be beaten even after loosing Dan carter to injury. similarly i think the earthquake in new Zealand that year also had a unifying factor and extra motivation for the team as richie mcaw had mentioned in his acceptance speech. the all blacks are a more mature team now that dealt with the pressure of being overwhelming favourites to lift the Webb ellis far better than in the past.
Pete on May 2, 2012
all his movies are bullshitly overrated
sir w on Jun 5, 2009
Agreed. Gran tourino... WTF!?
NeoN247 on Jun 5, 2009
Gran Torino was phenomenal and how you could say that such a legend as Clint Eastwood is overrated is beyond me. That just tells me that you're probably a teenager who doesn't know much about this history of film making in general. Eastwood is an icon of contemporary cinema...
peloquin on Jun 5, 2009
And I find it interesting that Timothy McVeigh's last words were "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." It's a very powerful poem...
peloquin on Jun 5, 2009
Sorry but gran tourino was one of the worst acted films i have ever seen, not to mention the script. Half the time i was laughing for all the growling he was doing... Dont get upset because i criticised ure hero, its healthy to have debate. Im afraid i dont agree with you so obviously that makes me a teenager who knows nothing about the history of film making. Nuff said...
NeoN247 on Jun 5, 2009
Neon: you were supposed to laugh at his growling. it was intended to be funny. But ya, the kids' acting was beyond bad. especially the girl when she's getting hit on by the group of black guys. eastwood should have known better.
Mike on Jun 5, 2009
I don't care that you don't like the man, but you can't say that he hasn't shaped film as we know it. You need to respect him for the impact he's made on the industry and the diverse amount of classics he's given us that took genres in directions no one had thought of previously. I'm always up for a healthy debate so why don't you cite some of the films which you think were terrible. He's a writer, director, producer, actor, and composer and anyone who can take on that many roles on a project has a whole lot of talent not to mention a rock solid work ethic. And in regards to the acting in Gran Torino, of course it was going to be bad, what did you expect? How hard do you think it is to find actors who speak both Hmung and English in LA? Eastwood cast the film with rookie actors and took them under his wing everyday to train them into the roles he needed them for. Most of them were commercial actors, film students, and extras. To take on such novices is a huge risk, but a respectable one for a veteran like Eastwood to endure in order to bring his story to life. As for his facial expressions, a good actor can speak dialogue strongly, but a great actor can convey his point without uttering a single word.
peloquin on Jun 5, 2009
i'd expect the people who mention Eastwoods films as overrated to come from a site that is usually a Bay lovers paradise.
Al on Jun 5, 2009
never said hes bad, just overrated, in fact I enjoyed Gran Torino, its good but nowhere near great, I believe most people pretend to appreciate his recent movies only because hes clint eastwood
sir w on Jun 6, 2009
By that same logic the same critics would be praising Coppola because he's Francis Ford Coppola, but that's not the case if you've read any recent reviews of Tetro. A good story is a good story regardless...
peloquin on Jun 6, 2009
"Suzie who was a waitress at the hotel the New Zealand team was staying at, and is widely believed to have poisoned the Kiwi's prior to the final" and i wonder who poisoned the Kiwis in the previous world cup, or the Chiefs in the last Super 14 Match. South-African Rugby RULES.. no question
Springbuck on Jun 10, 2009
"South-African Rugby RULES.. no question", and yet the All Blacks are world number one despite only winning the inaugural world cup in 1987, have won 88% of their matches since their inception and have made the finals in every world cup. Also, in the days when there was no world cup, and the unofficial world cup was fought between South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, the All Blacks were still dominant. New Zealand Rugby RULES... officially
AllBluck on Jun 19, 2009
Everyone knows a South African waitress poisoned the All Blacks. The AB's have the best record in the world not SA.
NZ111 on Aug 30, 2009
Poisoned by a waitress called Suzie or not, many of the New Zealand Team were suffering from food poisoning! Original footage will show the NZ player throwing up during the game, but they played on and just lost! It will be interesting to see if this will be mentioned during the movie? To play a game like rugby with a gastric bug is very hard, but to play it at international level is near impossible to do and compete! If that New Zealand team was fully fit they would have murdered the Spring Boks!
Hak on Oct 30, 2009
The All Blacks lost the 1995 World Cup final because they were poisoned. They lost the other finals because they were not good enough. A fact is a fact.
paul on Nov 2, 2009
guys, this is just a film! why are you taking this so seriously? we all know the boks had won more games than the all blacks pre isolation and the all blacks have won more games post isolation. but this is just a film!! eastwood is a legend, damon and freemon too. mandela is biggest legend of them all, and pienaar... well, you can't say enough about the man... i'm just glad the boks won that game, because it united a nation and through this movie will put rugby firmly on the map. Its such a small sport in global terms compred to the reach of football... that said i wish the kiwis would stop yapping on about the poison... all of us in the UK are so tired of it. it makes you look like sore losers, even if it were true (which no one bar the brainwashed kiwis believe).
Dale on Nov 10, 2009
I'm not a kiwi (though, I am married to one) and I believe the All Blacks would have won if not for the "poisoning"/stomach bug. You may chalk it up to being sore losers, but what about the reported "listening devices" in the players rooms and synconized late night car alarms going off in the parking lot outside the AB hotel? Whatever, eh?
Amy on Dec 2, 2009
Been poisoned before in Southern African - nothing to do with Rugby though - all about politics. We can tell you stories...see the film, Invictus, why not. I lived there as US Dilplomat during that period, after Mandela was released from prison. This feel it will be shear entertainment, believeable or not. Mary
Mary on Dec 2, 2009
As an Australian, I certainly believe that the All Blacks had food poisoning; just look at the TV footage of the match. Also, the only people not to get ill were the four members of the squad who did not eat lunch with their team. It's impossible to say whether this was deliberate poisoning or not, but the political pressure for a Springbok win, the fact that this occurred on Springbok home turf, and a history of politically-motivated poisonings in South Africa makes this a credible possibility. Many NZers and Australians, while being fiercely competitive with the South Africans when it comes to rugby, would have also been happy to have seen the end to apartheid in that country (witness the civil disputes in the early 80s when the Bok were to play in either country), and the inclusion on non-White players for the first time. But I suspect that Clint Eastwood will have made a politically correct feel-good movie with the World Cup as a back-drop, and will not present the facts as they happened. That's a shame. And "Dale", stop being such a pill. The Poms are the biggest whiners out there, and your toxic comments are typical for your countrymen, who do not like to see superior athletes from other countries (particularly from the "colonies") walk all over your own
Linda on Dec 3, 2009
============================== Clint Eastwood intentionally chose an anti-God title for a film about a Christian ============================== The Invictus poem is anti-God secular humanism. Invictus was a favorite poem of Timothy McVey who wrote it out just before his execution. Mandella was a Christian. This movie title is a slap in the face to Mandella. The movie title should be based on the poem by Dorthy Day, My Captian. Dorothy Day was a follower of the beliefs behind Invictus until she became saved and saw the ugliness of the Invictus beliefs. My Captain by Dorothy Day Out of the light that dazzles me, Bright as the sun from pole to pole, I thank the God I know to be, For Christ the conqueror of my soul. Since His the sway of circumstance, I would not wince nor cry aloud. Under that rule which men call chance, My head with joy is humbly bowed. Beyond this place of sin and tears, That life with Him! and His the aid That, spite the menace of the years, Keeps and shall keep me unafraid. I have no fear though strait the gate, He cleared from punishment the scroll; Christ is the Master of my fate, Christ is the Captain of my soul.
N Waff on Dec 3, 2009
I came to this site after hearing that a blockbuster movie containing rugby was being made! dissapointed to read all the scathing attacks on people which is generally why I do not leave comments. BUT, Linda you are exactly what is wrong with many Aussies when it comes to sport and England. I was born and raised in Manchester up untill I was 10 when we moved to Aus, ever since I arrived I copped flak for being english which is fine when its a bit of a laugh, but most aussies such as yourself really do miss the point of being good sports. Dale only said what is true, and the fact of the matter is that this movie is about Mandela and the people of SA not a investigative documentary into the Cup final...as for your attack on us POMs it really does make you sound so immature and makes me angry, for your apparant hatred for us is totally unjust...this is why i cannot bring myself to barrack for any Australian team in any sport and find myself backing teams like Ireland and France against you. I have some great friends who are passionate australian supporters but they do not act as if there country is the best at everything, ther is no competative need for them to believe nor want it to be so. I am sure most would find YOUR comments linda to be far more "toxic" than anything anyone has said in this comments page, im also gonna be cheeky and guess your a bit of a bogan aswell... 🙂
Jack on Dec 4, 2009
Dale, I don't know where you get your facts from, but the ABs have been dominant basically since 1907, the ABs have won more official and unofficial games than the South Africans by far.
W Smith on Dec 4, 2009
Not today they didn't ! The Barbarians beat them soundly here at Twickenham ! I
Paul on Dec 5, 2009
Not today they didn't ! The Barbarians beat them soundly here at Twickenham ! Interestingly, it was a South African that scored 3 tries against the All Blacks ! !
Paul on Dec 5, 2009
As a loud and proud pom, i luv rugby and england. But as far as statistics go, the New Zealanders are by far the most dominant rugby team for over a century hands down. But in terms of winning world cups its clear the aussies have that title. And as far as win rates go for the south africans, they are third only to the aussies only due to previous years of encounters of bein totaly and utterly dominated against there will. And yes the New Zealanders were poisend theres live footage at the game showing them puke. And about the New Zealanders tour of europe. And yes it is a fact that a south african playing for the barbarians scored a hat-trick which gave the barbarians the win. But thats only because southern hemisphere players can score against New Zealand. But, nore england, italy, wales or italy scored a single try against the New Zealanders on tour yet alone come close to a near win. That proves that if the players were made of players from europe theres no way they would have won. So riddle me this, what does that say about northern and southern hemisphere rugby?
All boxers fear david tua esp hayes on Dec 7, 2009
There is a book written by Mandela's chief bodyguard who also went on to guard the All Blacks during the 1995 World Cup. Rory Steyn - One Step Behind Mandela. He has a whole chapter titled "The All Blacks and Food Poisoning." That final was epic, but a film should have been made about the epic effort put in by a POISONED All Black side playing at HIGH ALTITUDE and almost winning. Indeed this same All Black side went on to beat this same so-called Invictus Sprinkbok side 6 times out of the next 7 meetings. Please bear in mind, the All Blacks weren't food poisoned in those games, so it hardly fair on the Springboks. Rory Steyn writes: the "illness" which had swept through the team had a major impact on the All Blacks' preparation for the final. "I had to endure accusations of complicity in this, from New Zealand officials, and I was very angry that this was allowed to happen in my country - to people in my care," Steyn said. Rory Steyn says the All Blacks were the best team in the competition - "against the Ellis' Park altitude and against food poisoning they ran South Africa close into extra time, so close. "Laurie Mains, now the highly popular coach of the Cats(in 2000), says that he'll go to his grave wondering what would have happened if the All Blacks had not been sick," Steyn said in the book. Mains employed a private investigator in an attempt to get to the bottom of the mystery. Steyn said the investigator reported back that a Far Eastern betting syndicate had paid a waitress called Suzie at the All Blacks' hotel to put something in their water. "South African rugby fans remained sceptical of this theory and preferred to put it down to sour Kiwi grapes," Steyn said. "To my fellow South Africans I want to say this: Stop all those cheap jokes about Suzie, the food poisoning and whingeing Kiwis. It happened. There is no doubt that the All Blacks were poisoned two days before the final. "The All Black team never whinged about it. If anybody whinged it was their media and boy can they whinge. "In fact the New Zealand team management took a decision not to use the poisoning as an excuse, not to even mention it." This is an eye witness account from one of your own. Care to rebut?
Justin R. on Dec 7, 2009
The all blacks had ALWAYS eaten in public while on tour, however in 1995 WC they were sent to a seperate dining room and some of them did think this was strange, after their meal the team started to get very ill. Nelson Mandela was now president and this WC game was VERY VERY important to the SA so important they were willing to poison the whole all blacks team to shut them down. A well respected security guard who was there at the time of the 1995 world cup has written a book and is now disclosing the fact the the all blacks really had been poisened, I have a feeling this crime scene will not be in Invictus and that is a shame as it is a twist and WC history.
kim on Dec 7, 2009
I strongly feel that the most controversial part of this whole movie is the fact that the finest and legendary TIAAN STRAUSS did not get chosen for the Springboks! Apparently Piennaar had a business grudge against him! The sad fact is that the best SA Team didn't play and to had insult to injury Strauss was allowed to play for Australia in a RWC game against South Africa. And yes people South Africa Lost that game to Australia. And Australia became World Champions! So much injustice and yet so much silence!
Ivo on Dec 10, 2009
Yes the New zealanders snuck out of the rooms and went out partying they got food poisoning from some dive. It had nothing to do with anyone else and they only had themselves to blame. In fact the NZ players were men and never spoke about it for this reason. If they had obeyed the rules and not gone out this would not have happened. The only people who whine about this are the press and losers like you.
steven on Dec 11, 2009
Wow Steven, congratulations on being the 2nd South African to openly admit the New Zealand team was poisoned. Most saffas completely deny the whole scandal. But there is much progress to be made for you. As you still seem able to oppress the truth by whitewashing the facts with made up stories. Still I'm pleased with your progress.
Justin R. on Dec 11, 2009
Ok I am not whining I am just laying out facts !!!!!!!!!!!!! if you had yours right you would know that ONLY 3 TEAM MEMBERS SNUCK OUT TO EAT ELSEWHERE!!! the rest of the team including the all blacks manager over 30 men ( he has recently stated that he believes it was the milk that made them ill ) and they ALL became ill, the 3 who snuck away did not. All I know is SA did not stand much chance of winning as the All Blacks were at the top of their game, but throw some poison in the mix and you stand a very good chance of wining. I LOVE NELSON MANDELA and I hope the movie does well.................
kim on Dec 12, 2009
Hey Kim, only Colin Meads says it was the milk, and in his naive Kiwi apologetic way, he is trying to diffuse the situation implying the poisoning was an accident. However not everyone drank milk, and milk no matter how old is, cannot make you very sick. Many cultures drink buttermilk which has been left out for days. It really had to be in the water for over 30 men to be poisoned. All you need to do is quote Rory Steyn - One Step Behind Mandela. Since he is a credible South African, his account of the poisoning is imposssible for them to dispute and it really really really pisses the South Africans off that one of their own is willing to tell the truth.
Justin R. on Dec 12, 2009
I respect Clint Eastwood but I don't like some of his movies. I also noticed that he likes to show his movies in December which is very close for the academy awards selection and of course he is always the winner. I would like to see some of his movies during the summer or spring time.
mirebella on Dec 12, 2009
Hey MARY US Diplomat, Since you have stories of being poisoned in Southern Africa for political reasons. I'd like to hear them. Specifically what kind of poison was used? Symptoms experienced? And do you know of any lasting side effects suffered by yourself or friends. The All Blacks were poisoned at a Thursday lunch, most became very ill by dinner time with only 5 or so making it, and nobody made to breakfast the next day. Except the 4 who snuck away for pizza and escaped the lunch. Real food poisoning takes 8plus hours to knock you over. Whereas toxins are very quick, such as what the All Blacks experienced. That same year the most famous player in history Jonah Lomu came down with a rare kidney disorder. So to all those who say forget it, tell that to Lomu's kidneys, which of course required a transplant and will result in a drastically shortened life. I await your post Mary and the inevitable moronic incredulous Saffa posts, unless your name is Rory Steyn - author of One Step Behind Mandela and eyewitness to the All Blacks deliberate poisoning.
Justin R. on Dec 13, 2009
The words of Zinzan Brooke in a 2003 UK newspaper interview: As for what happened next, what can I say? We all felt we had plenty left to give in the final, but something was definitely done to us. Forty-eight hours before the big day and 18 of us, plus management(did management sneak out too as Saffa Steven claims), go down with food poisoning. That may be coincidence, but I don't think so. For every game before then we had made a point of eating in public restaurants to avoid being targeted. But in the week of the final we isolated ourselves in a private room. We had asked for our chef [a New Zealander] in Cape Town to be brought down to cook for us in Johannesburg, but the hotel management point blank refused. When we realised what had happened we thought about pulling out, getting the game postponed. However, we decided to use it to motivate us even more. Unfortunately, things didn't work out as we had hoped. Even then, we still managed to get something out of what was done to us. Those who played that day made a pact that we would come back the next year and win the Test series. In eight attempts, no All Black side had ever managed that, but we did.
Justin R. on Dec 13, 2009
No one knows the all the true facts in fact most of this is pure speculation. The Facts according to the NZ coach who instructed the team not to mention this as there was no deliberate proof of intentional food poisoning.(by a "Suzie or Far eastern Gambling syndicate") What is fact is that a number of NZ players and management went out and after partying at Rocky street got sick the next day. (This was a fact as it was mentioned in the papers that they were seen there) My wife also got food poisoning from a restaurant there. The Players and management had been told not to go out but either due to boredom or over confidance they did. It was a unprofessional blunder which MAY have cost them the game. I am just giving the facts. The team did not whine about it, it leaked to the press who wildly exagerated the incident and then whining loser fans strarted making excuses for their teams loss. The NZ players were all great players but they did not obey the rules and paid the price. What is fact is that there has been no proof that it was deliberate. When in a "3rd world country" be careful where you eat and drink.
steven on Dec 15, 2009
And those of you quoting Mr.Rory Steyn who is trying to hock his book and sensationalise things see "ONE of Nelson Mandela's former bodyguards has spilled the beans in the security equivalent of a "kiss and tell" memoir -- and sparked a controversy in the process. And this being South Africa, the row has a racial dimension. Rory Steyn is being accused of using his privileged access to the former South African president to make quick money out of his book, A Step Behind Mandela." Mr Steyn is a real piece of work and anything he says is highly debatable.. http://www.dispatch.co.za/2000/07/10/features/LP.HTM
steven on Dec 15, 2009
Justin, when you speak you intimate that the NZ players were intentionally poisoned, the long and short of it is that they got food poisoning. I am just asking you to look at the facts before you make spurious accusations it cheapens you and your argument.
steven on Dec 15, 2009
And as for Kim you are hysterical and Whining. You speak as if you were there and you know all the facts. It could have been a 24 hour stomach bug, all the players were in close proximity. It is all sheer speculation. The NZ team were offered a postponement they declined, it was tough luck but thats life. Even ZinZan Brooke is whining he says the water bottles were poisoned so was it the food ,a waitress, water bottles, stomach bug etc. What is patently obvious is that it had nothing to do with the Bokke they won fair and square. Grow Up whinining ninnies..
steven on Dec 15, 2009
Steven you've got no idea. No players went out, certainly not any player that were in the starting 22 for the Final. Possibly earlier in the week for some of the others. Players started to come down suddenyl with problems from about 5pm. Mehrtens was the earliest and was isolated in a single room at the hotel to avoid the spread of what at that stage could still have been a simple flu. Others proceeded to succumb to the symptoms throughout the night; intense vomiting and diarrhoea, headaches etc. Several players who had gone out to a movie had to run out of the theatre to vomit, including the hard man of the front row, Richard Loe. By the morning (Friday) almost all the squad were unable to make it to breakfast. A scheduled final light training run at the stadium that day was cancelled and instead the bus took the team to a nearby park for fresh air, where the majority of the players lay on the grass in the shade, with no energy. By the time of the final most of the players had experienced significant improvement, and at least had the physical energy to get through 100 minutes at altitude of an intense and physical final. How much effect the incidents had on the mental capacity to play a final is hard to say. It certainly didn't help. None of the players involved have ever said they would have won if they hadn't been poisoned. At the same time none of them will say that nothing happened. In rugby history, the Springboks and All Blacks have been about 50-50 for results. The All Blacks have a vastly superior win-rate against all opposition, but hadn't won a series in South Africa until 1996, while the Springboks won a series once on NZ soil, in 1937. In fact, the 1921 (in NZ) and 1928 (in SA) series had both been drawn, so NZ didn't win a series until 1956 in NZ. As for discrediting anything that Rory Steyn says, have you met him or truly know anything about him? Mandela seemed to trust him with his life. As did we. There's not much accuracy in a lot of these posts and often little more than hearsay and conjecture. Anyway, well done to the Bokke for 95 and of course for 07, and let's enjoy the film. I know nothing about Clint Eastwood's merits as an actor or as a director, but I've enjoyed a lot of his films.
Dave on Dec 23, 2009
After reading all of this I wonder how bad NZ would've beaten SA if both teams were at full strength. Didn't know any of this stuff and, regardless of who is to blame, a major part of the story has been left out.
db on Dec 24, 2009
I am so sorry to read the rubish that has been written in theese colums. I have always enjoyed the games between NZ and SA, but to read the absolute nonsence about food poisoning and bad refs is a slur in what is in my mind a gentlemans game. South Africa has and always will be a force to be reconed with in world rugby. And yes, SA was not there when NZ won the first and may I add the only title to date. In all, the bad blood in this colum looses what the movie is all about, the fact that sport can bring a nation together and even in the wake of what must be one on the worst crimes one human can comit against another. Mandela is one of the greatest men of our times, why not take a leaf from his book and be positive and not bitter and negative. Rugby is a great sport, keep it clean and free from poor sportmanship.
SIDNEY on Jan 1, 2010
Sidney you're missing the point in a way. You're right that the film is to be admired for chronicling the life of a wonderful man and for the way one particular game did more for the unification of a country than so many other things combined. But denying that things occurred, in order to "keep the game clean" is naive and ignorant. How can you say that the food poisoning is nonsense?
Dave on Jan 5, 2010
Also worthy of note and just complete speculation for the hell of it: There is a scene in the movie which makes no sense unless you know about the sabotage. Here is a summary of Mandela in limo talking to his Minister of Sport. Almost verbatim. Mandela on All Blacks, "They seem unstoppable, how can we beat them" Minister, "I could give you the Bok coach's phone number, maybe you could call him and ask?" Mandela, "No, no, I don't want to distract them even for one moment,....but how can we win?". Minister, "Maybe we won't win, we have already exceeded all expectations." Mandela, "That's not enough,...not now,...not so close,...this country is hungry for greatness." And that's it. A totally pointless scene unless the viewer knows about the deliberate poisoning, along with disallowing the All Blacks their own kiwi chef whom they had up until the final week, the symthony of car alarms all night, and the harassing phone calls patched through to the players at all hours of the night despite instructions for no phone calls. Mandela's question "but how can we win?" suggests he is looking for a way to help the boks win, but how he goes about this is not answered in the movie. Of course willfully ignorant South Africans will say it was answered by the boks on the field. However there is no reason for this scene unless Mandela is firguring a way to effectively help the boks to victory in the noble goal of unifying his country. This conversation clearly suggests, he was not willing to leave the outcome to chance. Kiwis hate poor sportsmanship. Deliberately poisoning the opposition is the epitome of poor sportsmanship. So you're going to hear about it, especially if someone makes a movie about it and leaves out a few inconvenient facts.
Justin R. on Jan 5, 2010
I just cant believe that so many ignorant and uninformed readers can be taken in by what is a load of inaccurate hollywood nonsence. This is the sort of write up I would expect from the 'Sun' or some silly tabloid page. Whats more shocking is that comments left on theese pages directly attack Nelson Mandela and question his integrity and honesty, I seriously doubt any person writing a comment on these pages or any pages for that matter are in a position to do so. Mandela is probably one of the most just and moral persons walking this earth today. If you are able to be taken in by what hollywood has to offer, you are not qualified to place a comment on any public site or place, you are gullable and silly. I do also believe that most New Zealand rugby players would be sorely disapointed in being pulled through the mud by giving such poor excuses for losing, what are the excuses for the times they lost the two other world cups that South Africa played in? not to mention the catastrophic preformance in France, not to mention South Africa's performance last year in the Tri-Nations. South Africa is a rugby giant and force to be reckoned with. The above comments are unsporting and in poor taste, especially when they attack and belittle one of the great leaders of our time. I agree with Sidney, 'WHAT A LOAD OF NONSENCE' and in my opinion, by ignorant and gullable cinama goer's, or shall I be bold enough to suggest poor NZ rugby surporters, which I am sure are in the minority, as I have had the pleasure of meeting and going to games with NZ's who would not resort to such poor sportmanship and would not like to be part of this.
Rob on Jan 6, 2010
I haven't said anything about Nelson Mandela. Nor is it the movie that is making the poisoning claims. So try to read properly before you make a comment. And when you do, try to spell correctly so you don't look like a complete muppet. As I said above, I'm not making an excuse for the All Blacks losing the Final. Nor for any other game, World Cup or otherwise, which they lose. It has always happened and will continue to happen. Nobody is debating that South Africa is a rugby giant, or a force to be reckoned with. So leave your emotion aside and re-read the comments above, and try (slowly) to comprehend what has been written.
Dave on Jan 6, 2010
I am sorry if I have made a spelling mistake, but English is not my first language or second for that matter, as well as not being South African. I can read as much as I can comprehend that you are a fool as well as gullable, not muppet but rather a puppet, how many languages can you speak and write in? Spend too much time watching movies I think? and build your knowlege on that.
rob on Jan 6, 2010
Hey Rob, it seems your beliefs and opinions are based on squat. So far you've demonstrated you have zero knowledge of the facts in multiple languages. You wrote: "I do also believe that most New Zealand rugby players would be sorely disapointed in being pulled through the mud by giving such poor excuses for losing" If you'd taken just a moment to actually comprehend the various comments above even though they challenge your own current beliefs, you might learn something. Colin Meads, Sean Fitzpatrick, Eric Rush, Frank Bunce, Zinzan Brooke and Laurie Mains (all former All Blacks) all give the same detailed account of the deliberate poisoning at the Thursday lunch 2 days prior to the final(as Dave has also detailed above). Then of course this is all backed up by South African Rory Steyn, head of All Blacks security in 1995, who then went on to be Nelson Mandela's chief bodyguard. They all describe the events from that Thursday lunch onwards exactly the way Dave did above. That's the thing about the truth, it's really easy to keep straight. The players decided to use the poisoning as motivation and win anyway in spite of the sabotage. Unfortunately they lost, but even then they got something from it, as the players who played in the final made a pact to come back next year, avoid being poisoned and beat the Boks like rented mules. And so they did.
Justin R. on Jan 6, 2010
Justin !!!! you are precisely what Sid has judged accurately, a gullible fool. You are obviously oblivious to the facts in the outcome of the IRU investigation into the allegations. Wake up and refrain from be a sore looser. NZ has a poor world cup record. The Kiwis are "best team ever" but chokers at the World Cup. And, they have to pinch half the South Sea Islanders to try keep up with the rest.
ron on Jan 7, 2010
There was no IRB investigation, so the whole world is oblivious to it. The All Blacks never made a formal complaint. See South African Rory Steyn's book, "One Step Behind Mandela" page 72, titled "The All Blacks and Food Poisoning." The truth and the facts are there from an unbiased source. Also before you make comments about pinching South Sea Islanders, you may want research where the team members are born or grew up. Warning! This may cause a nose bleed, from too much correct information opposing all the preconceived crap that you've grown accustom to.
Justin R. on Jan 8, 2010
Direct quote from Rory Steyn's book One Step Behind Mandela. What a hugely brave show the All Blacks put on that day. Against unbelievable South African patriotic fervour, against the effects of Ellis Park's 5400ft altitude and against food poisoning, they ran South Africa close (into extra time), so close!
Justin R. on Jan 8, 2010
How can a team that concedes 60 points in the semis and and quarter finals go into a World Cup final expecting to win (food poisoned or otherwise)? Come on, they peaked too early in the tournament.
Charlie on Jan 9, 2010
let me guess Justin R, you are from new zealand? Get over it dude. You guys lost, end of the damn story. Stop blaming it on the ridiculous food poisining. We won again in 2007, does that piss you off too that South Africa has won twice and and you guys are still struggling to win since 87? If you dont win in 2011 I wonder what your excuse will be then?
James on Jan 9, 2010
Never thought I would see the day NZ used a excuse based of a story by a money sick author who base his book on a load of crap. I agree with James, what will the excuse be next year as last time it was the coach. Bad loosers, that is what they are.
jan on Jan 10, 2010
There was a IRB and SARB enquiry as was there a South African police investigation. Not to mention the international sports journalist scrutiny which came up with no evidence of deliberate food poisining. The All Blacks did go out on the town and were irresponsible. Theese are hard facts. As for Rory Steyn, he is a gold digger, who has done well at exploting what is a total fallacy at the right time. He was and may still be a man who needed to top up his income, as was the case with Diana's aide Paul Burrell who went and perjured himself in a like for like situation, and how the public were taken in by him? I cant wait for next year and what excuse or who will be the scape-goat when/or if NZ loose the World Cup again?????????????? They have to date not won a world cup in which South Africa has played. I am a proud South African and find it a shame that sports fans can be so gullable and use tabloid crap as a excuse for loosing in what was one of the best World Cup finals and World Cups. Be a sportsman !!!!
Ken on Jan 10, 2010
AAAh!!!!The great old Rivalry South Africa vs New zealand, my word people make it out that the All Blacks are the greatest rugby nation of all time....what a load of crap! Now don't get me wrong you All Balck fans....yes your team has got some very impressive records, they always play with great intensity....and yes South Africa will always be behind due to apatheid back in the dark days...if you go by your little record games....but with time records are always broken! The Boks came back to international rugby in 1992...and since then have played in four World Cups and won two.....THINK ABOUT IT ALL BLACK FANS!!!!! THE BOKS HAVE BEEN BACK 16 YEARS, AND THE MIGHTY BOKS HAVE BEEN WORLD CHAMPS FOR 8 OF THOSE YEARS.....LONG LIVE SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY......
anton on Jan 10, 2010
Just want to say I was never denigrating South Africa's performance. Nor trying to take anything away from their world cup record which speaks for itself and (having missed the first two) is undoubtedly the best by far, eclipsing the only other double-winners Australia. NZers have the most respect for the Boks of all other international teams. As I mentioned above, it has only been recently that the ABs have achieved parity and gone slightly ahead in terms of overall wins. But up til 1996 it was very even and South Africa shaded us. In fact, the advent of the quota system in SA, if anything, has weakened South African rugby as players are selected on racial grounds rather than straight merit. The South Sea islanders, you refer to them, are almost without exception born and bred in New Zealand and have opted to make their future there, rather than being "poached" from the islands. Based on the myriad spelling mistakes each time in the posts, I imagine that several of these "people" are actually the same guy posting. I can't really call that hiding though; my name isn't actually Dave but I have used a pen name as I was there in 1995, poisoned or sick or whatever in 1995, have never said that the Boks didn't deserve to win, but at the same time I am not going to say that nothing happened and I am not going to listen to some moronic couch potato say that nothing happened. Nor that any All Blacks were out on the town. And Rory Steyn had no reason to try for another selling point for a book about Mandela. If anything, he had more to lose than gain by putting something about the "poisoning" in his book.
Dave on Jan 10, 2010
Are plays written about times the Springboks have lost on tour? Reunions held and test victories revered against them? Thought not. The All Blacks are held in such high regard by the rest of the world that this happens when they are beaten. I accept that South Africans do not do this, having had more than their fair share of success against NZ. But England, France, Australia etc all have vivid memories of each (rare - except for Australia) occasion that they have beaten the All Blacks. Having never lost to Scotland or Irealand is something no other rugby nation can lay claim to. Wales for 56 years has not beaten the ABs. The ABs international success rate is somewhere between 75 and 80% and yes, the World Cup has not been our strong point but based on the esteem this team is held in by other nations and everything else I have referred to above, the All Blacks are still and have for a long time been the premium team in world rugby and the team that other teams play the game of their life against. Despite the IRB ranking system (which normally has NZ at #1) and the recent northern tour, I still believe the Boks are the best team on the planet at present (as well as holding the World Cup) and have been for at least the last 3 years.
Dave on Jan 10, 2010
Dave, you got a problem mate. You lost and thats that, get over it.
anton on Jan 11, 2010
Next thing Dave will claim that aliens were involved and have been writing the comments on the page. Cant wait for 2011 World Cup and would love to be a fly on the wall when and if the AB's loose, which of course there is a good chance, will happen, if history is anything to go by. Incidently 4 of the AB's in the last world cup were not born in NZ, 20% of the team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up Dave, South Africa have kicked arse when it is needed, at the World Cup !!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob on Jan 11, 2010
I remember getting up at 2am to watch the game in Nz. At the time of the Suzy scandal as a? 14yo i though Nz were robbed. Only in the last few years as i got older and wiser i see that the 95 world cup was the highlight of world sport to date. Win lose or draw the bringing of a nation was the real winner here. Can't wait till i see the movie when it is released in australia on the 21st january
Kere on Jan 11, 2010
Unfortunately for rugby fans the movie is a major dissappointment. Here was a chance to showcase the sport like never before. But the rugby scenes are done with unfit looking club players at a snails pace. The timid referee is perhaps the worst part. I wonder what would have been wrong with using actual footage. You could have had the people in the bar watching on tv, and the movie goer experiencing it the way they did. Then you could also cut to a family watching the game in the middle of the night in New Zealand, with perhaps a blury eyed child asking his Dad, "Hey Dad, why is our superstar All Black winger throwing up on the sideline?" Finally this innocent question would be definitively answered by an unbiased Rory Steyn in his book "One Step Behind Mandela." Who despite fellow South Africans accusing him of being a liar in order to sell books, is continually awarded top International Security assignments to this day. As the people who employ him find his credentials and integrity unquestionable.
Justin R. on Jan 11, 2010
Justin, your comments display a shallow, uninformed and ignorant knowledge of South Africa and poor understanding of what Clint Eastwood has in his own way tried to do. This movie is not about rugby, but rather about bringing together a nation that has been torn apart by an evil and minority government, wounds that are still being healed even today, a message which is obviously a bit difficult for you to understand and grasp. I personally find it in poor taste that a South African, namely Rory Steyn can cash in on what was a privileged position, he is welcome to his new found friends in New Zealand as he has very few in South Africa now. As for your comment on his credentials and employment status, I take it you Googled his name whereupon you found this information, once again the actions of a gullable and shallow person. Do not use the name Mandela and Steyn and think they carry the same weight, as if you do, this only further proves your ignorance and stupidity. You can be rest assured Steyn is no longer welcome in the coridoors he once walked, as nothing but a security guard. You have in my personal opinion blemished the name of the New Zealand Rugby supporters, as I have and will always enjoy what I have found to be a decent and friendly rivalry and have met and enjoyed the company of many NZ fans, who have not showed the same poor sportsmanship and ignorance which you have displayed. You may in future want to educate yourself before writing about something that you know absolutely nothing about, namely South Africa, or may I suggest you stick to rugby, beer, media hype and poor sportmanship.
Sidney on Jan 12, 2010
ONE of Nelson Mandela's former bodyguards has spilled the beans in the security equivalent of a "kiss and tell" memoir -- and sparked a controversy in the process. And this being South Africa, the row has a racial dimension. Rory Steyn is being accused of using his privileged access to the former South African president to make quick money out of his book, A Step Behind Mandela. He has also been accused of writing lies and publishing confidential information about Mandela, and of causing a split between black and white members of the presidential security team. The latter charge comes from Mpho Mmutle, director of the VIP protection services unit, who accuses Steyn of "political disrespect for the presidency". He describes Steyn's book as unbalanced and riddled with mistakes, and says it breaches the security protocol governing heads of state.
Ken on Jan 12, 2010
Mmutle points out that Steyn, now a private security consultant, was brought into the VIP unit in 1996 thanks to Mandela's post-apartheid appeal for reconciliation and a second chance for white security agents from the old regime. As a result of the book, he notes, doubts are now being cast on the loyalty of the unit's white members. And he adds angrily: "We take his action as political disrespect for the office of the president and the government. Steyn has really thrown the seeds of mistrust among members of the unit." Even President Thabo Mbeki has shown concern over the book, which Mmutle says was not discussed with security officials or with Mandela himself.
Ken on Jan 12, 2010
Sidney has hit the nail on the head.
Ken on Jan 12, 2010
Hey Ken, if you're going to post quotes from a South African newspaper article, perhaps you should post both sides from that very same newspaper article in 2000. Here's the link to the full article. http://www.dispatch.co.za/2000/07/10/features/LP.HTM It's standard political speak to discredit someone by saying a book is unbalanced and riddled with mistakes. However a smarter mind would question this and say, show me the mistakes. The book combines the close -quarter observations of Rory Steyn with the investigative eye of journalist Debora Patta. In different ways, they were both acute spectators of a watershed period in history. And here's the part unbalanced Ken forgot to post: Despite the attacks on the book by Mmutle and others, free speech advocates argue that Steyn should be left alone and not be censored. "He writes the book through his own eyes, his personal experiences," commented a leading Sunday paper columnist. "Worst of all is these people in government are speaking for Madiba. The man has not said anything about the book. Maybe he likes it. Who knows?" -- Gemini News
Justin R. on Jan 12, 2010
Lesson for Contextually Challenged Sidney: In post #64 I began by setting what's known as context by writing "Unfortunately for rugby fans." This phrase tells the reader what follows should be understood as a comment on the rugby content of the film. However if I had written, "Unfortunately for world peace lovers" and then went on to criticise the rugby scenes, your #65 rant would be entirely relevant and in CONTEXT. (by the way this is sarcasm, I really hope you get that, no I do, I'm not being sarcastic, really) I do understand the rugby itself is secondary to the overall unification of the country in a very trying time. However the rugby in this actual storyline is central to the events and the unification goal and should have been portrayed with considerably more thought and planning befitting of a big budget movie. Although it certainly is a major step up from Rugby Ross on that Friends episode but I digress. Once again this is just my view as rugby fan and player who would like rugby to be showcased suitably on the world stage and thinks this was botched. You'd think a big budget movie could achieve this as they have done with American Grid Iron films. Also, you and I are never going to agree on the poisoning issue. But a bystander hearing both versions can come to their own conclusion. South Africans have varying versions but typically believe the All Blacks plus management went out on the town despite being warned and under the iron fist of Laurie Mains and came down with regular food poisoning. This version doesn't hold up to any objective thought and relies on 18 All Black players plus their management eating the same dish at the same restaurant or different dishes at different restaurants and still getting poisoned and suffering the SAME EXACT SYMPTOMS. But hey this version is what has been spoon fed to the South African public and an objective mind might say you are the gullible fools, or I would say more kindly, blindly patriotic fans. Opposing your view is the only unchanging version of events outlined by Colin Meads(try calling him a liar to his face), Laurie Mains, Sean Fitzpatrick, Zinzan Brooke, Eric Rush, Frank Bunce and finally Rory Steyn along with his co-author Debora Patta who had the guts and the most to lose(opposite of gain) by giving Steyn's version which matched that of the All Blacks given 5 years earlier. Ironically, the 4 players who actually did sneak away for pizza and who missed the Thursday hotel lunch were completely unaffected. Dave in comment #42 also gives an excellent synopsis.
Justin R. on Jan 12, 2010
Justin, for YOUR sake I hope AB's do well next year, as you seem to have a big hang up mate. You never seem to mention your accomplishments in France and Australia for that mater and the excuses and blame you went through after yet another poor World Cup Tour or Two. I personaly hope you get your arse kicked by whoever.
anton on Jan 13, 2010
Justin R What a load of rubish !
Sidney on Jan 13, 2010
Clint Eastwood returns with a very timely film covering the improvement of South Africa's racial discord through national pride supporting their rugby team, the Springboks, in the 1995 World Cup. Against the long history of Apartheid in South Africa, Nelson Mandela, imprisoned for 27 years for his role in sabotage against South Africa's interest while seeking ways to end apartheid and move towards a more democratic and multi-racial governance, became the first black president of South Africa in 1994. Though Mandela faced an uphill battle towards racial harmony as president, he pressed forward, trying to find a way to sway public opinion of the new non-apartheid goverment now in power. Morgan Freeman handles the role of Nelson Mandela with grace, dignity and political aplomb, though the script sometimes uses his dialogue to be a bit overly didactic in spots, but overall, the spirit of change that comes from within and finds itself way outward from the evidence of action and determination and inspiration carries the film. In looking for a hook to rally all South Africans, Mandela decides that a gentle push in world of rugby is just want his country needs, and as luck would turn out, his country would host the World Cup for Rugby in 1995. Mandela reaches out to the captain of the Springboks, Francois Pienaar (a white Afrikaner played by Matt Damon), with discussions of leadership and inspirational undercurrents to get people to become better than they imagine for themselves in service of a larger goal of national unity regardless of race and color. Not only are the Springboks tasked with winning the World Cup, they are also charged with travelling throughout South Africa to promote rugby and racial harmony (though the Springboks only had Chester as their sole black player on the team at the time, he was a tremendous beacon at the time ). The team travels to improvished areas, their eyes open to a much larger country than they knew before their travels. Towards the end, they also visit Robben Island, which served as Mandela's prison for 18 years, and Pienaar was able to grasp the resolve of Mandela's politcal convictions while standing inside his small cell, reflecting on what he was prepared to give up to rid his country of apartheid. The film takes its time setting up the political climate of South Africa in 1994-1995, as we see the difficult birth of a multi-racial South Africa in the everyday workforce through the integration of black and whites in Mandela's security detail, as political unrest and the successful assassination attempt of the ANC leadership Chris Hani in 1993 carried the day for the security detail. In parallel, the Springboks looks like the Bad News Boks at the start of the film, but soon, with Mandela's gentle nudges in the proper sports bodies, they are whipped into shape and become a force to be reckoned with on the rugby field, although they still were underdogs in most of their matches in the World Cup draws. But, as unsentimental the films begins, the film gains enough traction to rouse viewers on this improbable sports journey that helped in unifying the races in South Africa after the end of Apartheid in the early 1990's.
patman on Jan 13, 2010
Saw this over the weekend. I was really afraid the movie would be ultra schmaltzy like Flags of Our Fathers but Eastwood handles this with more restraint. Morgan Freeman is great as Nelson Mandela but isn't given much room to act as anything but a saint. Matt Damon is also limited by the screenplay; we know little about him and for the first act of the movie he has maybe three lines. The movie touches on the politics and the characters equally lightly (for such an historic event), which is a shame. There could be more to it. One aspect I really liked is the amount of time the movie devotes to Mandela's bodyguards, who must also deal with integration as they work together with bodyguards of the previous administration. They work sometimes as a Greek chorus of sorts, helping to humanize the president. It's a very well-made film, its extended running time didn't feel overlong. But this being Eastwood, I had hoped for a bit more. __________________
the bus on Jan 13, 2010
"Quotas are out," Stofile said unambiguously. "Let us now put our resources into the development of talent. Quotas were used only for window-dressing for international consumption. Those who have the money go and buy the players, instead of developing the boys where they are. The government are not going to decide who must be on the team. All we are saying is: expose everybody, give them an opportunity." The announcement will be music to the ears of South African rugby fans who had feared the break-up of their World Cup-winning team in the months and years ahead.
DTG on Jan 14, 2010
"Steven you've got no idea. No players went out, certainly not any player that were in the starting 22 for the Final." posted by David. Yes they did they were seen em mass at Rocky street Yeoville and it was in the newspapers at the time. Like I said when in a 3rd world country be careful where and what you drink or eat.
Steven on Jan 15, 2010
"Ok I am not whining I am just laying out facts !!!!!!!!!!!!! if you had yours right you would know that ONLY 3 TEAM MEMBERS SNUCK OUT TO EAT ELSEWHERE!!! the rest of the team including the all blacks manager over 30 men ( he has recently stated that he believes it was the milk that made them ill ) and they ALL became ill, the 3 who snuck away did no" posted by Kim. So we can at least agree that some of the players snuck out to Party, I know it was a lot more than three. To many vaiable to blame it on anybody but the ill disciplined players themselves. Who it is to blame is patently obvious the NZ player and their managers.
Steven on Jan 15, 2010
Still want to hear the excuses for the last World Cup, which was a poor show by the AB's. 1000's of AB suporters had to sell the tickets they had purchased due to the poor showing by what we are told is the BEST TEAM in the world. What a load of crap.
Ken on Jan 15, 2010
I watched every game in that tournament and the All Blacks were a completely different team on the day of the final. I was certain that they were so good that there was no way they could lose. They were so different in the final game than in the others that it was obvious someting as up. Was it a deliberate food poisoning? Who knows? Clint Eastwood's film Invivtus is a portrait of a moment in time in SA that may or may not be close to the truth. It's certainly a nice flick. for one I find it funny that he would make a film involving rugby that is so alien to Americans. Sad truth is that Mandela's legacy has been largely squandered in SA and nobody in the ANC has his presence, honesty, or charisma. On the contrary they are typical self-serving politicians. History is unable to retain secrets and any cover-up that may have happened will surface eventually. In the meantime people who don't live in the beauty, poverty, and violence that is SA today will believe a Hollywood truth. (P.S. I am not a Kiwi so I don''t say this for rugby reasons)
David on Jan 16, 2010
I love Eastwood's films, they are both poignant and heartwarming. I can't wait to see this film especially because I'm a Kiwi. Although I was surprised when I read up on facts of the game that our team the All Blacks didn't win, seeing it was during the time of the All Blacks reign especially with Jonah Lomu on the team. There was surely a lot of politics in just one game. As far as Clint Eastwood being overrated as some have commented, I would say his overrated films have a depth to them that may stump the arrogant; i suppose which is why some would call his talent overrated. His films wouldn't be overrated if they weren't great films, lol i suppose to even suggest Eastwood as overrated would be a great compliment.
operachik on Jan 16, 2010
Steven don't mix up David for Dave. Even though we're seemingly on the same side. David was saying that several players "snuck out" from the Thursday lunch where it seems the "illness" came from. Hence they didn't get "ill". As for partying that week, no player in the 22 for the final went out in the evening to party at all that whole week. The coach would have shot anyone that had and besides, nobody would compromise the biggest match of their life like that. Ken I haven't been trying to use it as an excuse; it happened but I believe I was clear that the South Africans deserved their final victory that day. Just as the French deserved their semifinal in 1999, the Australians in 2003 and the french again in 2007 quarterfinals. It only takes one loss to be out of the tournament and that's what happens. By and large the All Black supporters don't buy into the hype generated every time by the media, particularly the ignorant New Zealand media, who proclaim the All Blacks champions almost as soon as they play their first game. The All Blacks themselves don't either, despite the obvious attraction for people to say that they do. When the team arrived in the UK for the 1999 tournament they were embarrrassed to find that the jumbo jet had an enormous poster of the All Black front row emblazoned on it. Not how the All Blacks like to operate. Unfortunately, they are far and away the most marketable element in the game and as a consequence some of the bullsh1t is almost inevitable. Doesn't mean that all NZers or the ABs themselves actually buy into it though.
Dave on Jan 17, 2010
I am aware that through a Sports Travel Agent in the UK 5876 Tickets were purchased by New Zealand supporters for the FINAL. This does not take in to account purchases through other means.
Sidney on Jan 18, 2010
Why cant we just enjoy the game of rugby for what it is, a gentlemans game! act as gentlemen by being good sportsmen. New Zealand are magic and bring a little magic to the game, however South Africa are always a force to be dealt with and have had a hard time with its history. Come lets enjoy the movie for what it is and what it will do for the game of rugby.
Jim on Jan 18, 2010
I am sure that many thousands of tickets for the football World Cup final this year in South Africa have already been sold, despite the fact that the teams to play in it are far from decided. Presumably not too many people want to leave it until the last week if their team gets there. I would think that those who do not think like that but have the means to buy are finals ticket are pretty stupid. 5,876 out of a total of what? 70,000 final tickets or so? Not a great proportion. Any statistics on what other nationalities pre-bought? And you'd think that maybe there might even have been a few New Zealanders who viewed a final ticket as an investment, to be sold when the All Blacks don't reach the final. If there are NZers canny enough and cynical enough. 5,876 is not a large proportion of All Black fans, even considering the small population of NZ. So well done on your argument Sidders. Strong.
Dave on Jan 18, 2010
Dave, can you read or do you only read what you want to read. 5876 tickets were sold to NZ supporters BY A UK BASED SPORTS TRAVEL AGENT, what about your own 'fairly large' sport travel agents, which I am sure NZ fans used? Dont always be a wise guy. I was there a experienced the bitter and unhappy AB fans trying to sell the tickets they had purchased in good faith that the mighty AB would not let them down again! When will they learn?
Sidney on Jan 18, 2010
Doesn't change my argument at all anyway Skidders. And depending on which final you were talking about, there may not have been much of an allocation to NZ's NOT very large travel agents (with a population of 4 million, with a large number in Australia and London, use your own maths to work out where the bulk of tickets go). Anyway, 5876 was the only statistic you quoted, smart-ass. Use your incredible inside knowledge to find out and get back to us. We're all waiting eagerly. Besides which, nobody is debating that the All Blacks have crashed out of the last 3 World Cups after being hyped to the moon by the media (I don't include losing a final in extra-time in 1995 as "crashing out", although obviously for NZers it was hugely disappointing). Maybe read my posts thoroughly and you might even see some self-deprecating humour in there somewhere. Or you could just go and hang out at your travel agent's again for the afternoon. Enjoy.
Dave on Jan 21, 2010
You do not have an argument Dave, you are SORE!!! I am also sure your fairly strong Sports Travel industry would not be impressed by you downsizing them in one foul swoop to serve your own purpose, namely House of Travel, Seasonz Travel and also not mentioning that a large porportion of NZ's buy their sports travel packages from Total Sports Travel and We Love Rugby in Australia. Also worth mentioning that one of Gullivers Sports Travel sources of business is NEW Zealand. Oh, it is irrelevant which final I am talking about as you have won none since the first, in South Africa's absence. You seem to have a bottomless pit of elements or 'others' to blame for your World Cup failings, I am waiting in anticipation to see what you are going to come up with in 2011 when you lose, as it is quite possible!! In my personal opinion when the going gets tough, the tough get going and you NZ pansies are not that tough, wake up and realise it!!! South Africa were left out in the cold for many years and they wasted no time in 'COMING BACK' and showing you lot of Pansies in Black, with the addition of one or two 'bought' South Sea islanders thrown in for good measure, what it takes to be real world champions. Once again may I point out to you, in case your memory has evaded you, NZ has never won a World Cup in which South Africa has played. At the end of the day you are a poor sports man and sore loser. In the meantime over the next year make sure you start covering all eventualities and set up you own book of 'Why we Lost' excuses, it will make good and humerous reading for those who are bored or as yourself, are poor sportsmen.
Sidney on Jan 23, 2010
Sid, once again you have hit the nail on the head. Dave is sore and will have to go back to taking care of his sheep.
Ken on Jan 23, 2010
Or they may want to start a purchase The South Sea Island squad before that, so as to reduce the number of Pansies in the side.
anton on Jan 23, 2010
Sidney, you are being a bit harsh. They are not pansies, it's just that they have delicate tummies and anything other than lamb, green lipped mussels and sauvignon blanc gives them the runs. They should be ok next year as they will be eating at home and Oh! they should be used to the new coach. Should be no valid excuses this time round, lets hope.
Victor on Jan 23, 2010
I mean its the only NZRU award that only an individual of one race can win. Why do these things seem to be generally accepted? Posted on Rugby Forum, and you guys have the nerve to go at the Boks !!!!!!!!!1
Ken on Jan 23, 2010
It is clearly racist. As for comparing the fact that women aren't expected to play against men and are treated seperately in rugby, well I'm sure the sane amongst us know that it's fair they have their own competitions and prizes. It's not fair they get paid less, but women and men would never fairly compete with each other in this particular sport. I do love it when women athletes are recognised of course. As for young player of the year? Everyone is that age or area of age at some point, so that is actually open to all. Racism is racism. Maori and all other ethnic groups share a level playing field when it comes to sports opportunities in New Zealand and pretty much always have.Theres no need to reward someone for being the best player of any individual race. Zac Guildford is an amazing talent and deserves to be recognised as the up and coming player in New Zealand without a racial reference. This is just a tradition that would have been removed some time ago if it was best european or caucasian player of the year. Still, all New Zealanders are powerless in the face of this kind of racism, so we must just either celebrate or ignore these situations.
Ken on Jan 23, 2010
Interesting question- if NZ wins the RWC, the NZ economy will probably lose billions, as the entire nation collectively celebrates the win, and you`ll have exactly 5 people in NZ turning up for work on the Monday afterwards- and even they will be severely hung over. If NZ doesn`t win the RWC, the NZ economy will probably lose billions, as the entire nation collectively drowns their sorrows, and you`ll have exactly 5 people in NZ turning up for work on the Monday- and even they will be severely hung over. So, which scenario will the economists prefer? Something for Dave to think about !!!!!
Ken on Jan 23, 2010
Far be it for me to interrupt the Saffa circle-jerk going on here, but what the hell. I thought some facts might interest readers. If the All Blacks are pansies, what does that make the Sprinkboks, when they have only escaped defeat by said pansies a mere 13 MATCHES OUT OF 41 since their deserved isolation? Perhaps the Sprinkboks should change their name to the Shrinking Violets. Also of note and another fact, the only time the Shrinking Violets have faced the All Blacks in a pre-final world cup match, they wilted, rather badly, 29-9 to the All Blacks in Melbourne. Of course this was hardly fair, as the All Blacks weren't poisoned 48 hours before the match as in 1995. As documented in Rory Steyn's factually undisputed account in his book, "One Step Behind Mandela." When I write factually undisputed, nobody has ever proven any part of his book as not factual. Blanket statements from pissed off government officials trying to restrict a man's free speech does not disprove any part of this inside view into the life on Mandela. The man, Nelson Mandela himself has never disputed any part of this book. Go figure that one 31% victorious Shrinking Violets.
Justin R. on Jan 23, 2010
WORLD CHAMPIONS, cant you understand that Justin R? Men when it comes to the crunch, not goat 'sheep' farmers
Ken on Jan 23, 2010
You people who are slanging back and forth need to shut up. You're bringing shame to yourselves, your countrymen and women, your teams and your nations! The game is bigger than any of you lightweights and your puerile drivel. As a proud New Zealander who has actually played the game at a high level I find your comments disgusting. Thank the rugby gods that I lived at a time when we have 2 teams like the ABs and the Bokke. These battles are the best rugby in the world and we would all be lamenting the state of the game if we had to watch the clinical boredom that is Northern Hemisphere rugby. Give me Habana v Jane, Carter v either Steyn, McCaw v Brussow and Bakkies Bloody Botha v Ali Bastard Williams any day of the week!!! Wake up and be grateful you pack of idiots!
Wheelan on Jan 23, 2010
Dear Wheelan Nice comment and straight to the point, however you have lowered yourself to the same level as us 'idiots' as you put it by joining in with the same level of grammar. I do agree with you that we in the southern hemisphere are in a class of our own. I have and always will enjoy the games and rivalry between our nations as I always have since the 60s when I was a kid and through the dark years. However, I will not sit back and let some fool deprive South Africa of glory by quoting Rory Steyn's book and some unsubstantiated rubbish. I believe the Movie was made in good faith and to highlight the power of sport and celebrate the life of a man who is second to none, a leader of our times. I went through the uncertain years including a war and losing my best friend and can only thank G-D that Nelson Mandela was there to diffuse what could have turned into civil war, something the idiots who have written comments on are obviously oblivious to, as their poor sportmanship has got the better of them. I believe New Zealand are the greatest! but I am South African and will not let imbeciles comments go by unanswered. Rugby is great and we are the best at it, by that I mean New Zealand, Australia and South Africa
Sidney on Jan 24, 2010
Good eveninng,morning to all rugby fans worldwide Rugby as allways been rivalry in Wales when the contest is against England its a celtic thing, we support 2 teams Wales and anybody who beats England. O.K. we could go on for ever and ever with this. Please let nus all be realistic , yes the ALL BLACKS are by far the greatest team in the world, as we all know in the northern hemisphere , my first vision of the Springbocks were at Ebbue vale north monmouthshire in 1968, i was 14 years of age, i knew nothing of political problems worldwide. only that my village had tribal/gangwarfare ,against the neighbouring villages , Markham.Blackwood and Oakdale . After hearing a newsbroadcast on TWW REPORTS THIS WAS PRIOR TO h.t.v.wales. my Chemistry teacher at blackwood sec modern , Jeff Palmer ,who played for newbridge rfc refused to play for Monmouthshire v Springboks , because of Aparteht , he told the reporters outside of our school that he taught children of all nationalitys. There were in fact two African /negro children at our school at this time who were fostered ,and i ashamedly bullied with words . After taking my seat in the schoolboys enclosure at ebbewvale rugby ground i was overwhellemed by the apparthet movement ,inside and outside the ground. Years past by my son had junior welsh/eastmon caps but never made on the big scale due to rugby and politics in schools/wales etc , anyway he put together a school project on nelson mandella and recived good marks and my eyes opened up more. . now that i have bored you all to shit, allways remember the best team for football in the uk is supposed to be man unt. or whatever but when it comes to cup games shit happens the ref was bias the linesman etc etc we could go on and on blaming everyone why we lost but thats life you are all great but accept things as they are .NOW I COME TO THE POINT I HAVE ONLY JUST WATCHED A TRAILOR of the film AND I AM INSPIRED THAT GOOD OLD UNCLE SAM HAVE TAKEN A BIG GAMBLE EVEN MR EASTWARD(WHO I STILL HAVE A GREAT LIKING FOR ROWDY YATES,DIRTY HARRY ETC ,THE MAN WITH NO NAME) He as brought to the world Rugby for the americans to enjoy like all us northern hemespere welsh, scots,irish,italian french spanish dutch etc etc AND YOU LOT DOWN UNDER LONG LIVE RUGBY CJAX PONTYPOOL WALES
carl jackson on Jan 24, 2010
Just a couple of points Squid: "fairly strong" and "fairly large" travel industry means what exactly? We are a small nation and I am not belittling those in that industry, just stating the obvious. Compared to the travel industries of our rugby competitors (South Africa, France, Australia, the nations of the UK) we are most certainly the smallest. Just a fact, owing to population and money. I never said they weren't any good at what they do, just that they are comparatively small. Hope you are intelligent enough to work that one out. (PS if you're going to wax lyrical, get the phrases right : one FELL swoop) "you seem to have a bottomless pit of elements or others to blame..." What excuses have I used at all? I stated that the Boks deserved to win in 1995 and stand by that. I won't however listen to idiots who don't know, suggesting that there was no illness on the Thursday or that the All Blacks went out that week. In terms of any other losses I believe I haven't made any excuses whatsoever and in fact tried to poke the stick at myself as a NZer. Which you were obviously too dumb either to read or to understand, or both. Nothing I have written has made me a poor sportsman or sore loser. Re-read the posts. Slowly, if you need to. You'll see I have neither excused nor avoided NZ's World Cup losses. As for my points about the rest of the rugby world lifting themselves against the All Blacks as they see them as THE team to beat, that still stands. South Africa are unquestionably top dog at the moment and deservedly so, but go anywhere from the Welsh Valleys to the mediterranean coast of France and rugby fans will tell you that the team they admire the most and dream of beating is the All Blacks. Congratulations Wheelan on your high level of rugby. What level? Sorry if playing actual tests is too lightweight for you and doesn't qualify me to have a say as much as you.
Dave on Jan 25, 2010
Dave; I didn't read any slanging coming from you so I don't see why you've taken it upon yourself to include yourself. Many of the points you've made were valid. My comments were directed to the fools who are using this forum as a platform to generate invective towards each other under the guise of national pride. It's neither in the spirit of the game, as you would know if you've played at test level as you say you have, nor has it anything to do with the purpose of this forum. As far as I'm concerned; I applaud the fact that Eastwood is showcasing rugby to a wider audience through this movie and I hope that it will bring a broader fan-base to the game.
Wheelan on Jan 25, 2010
Im sick and tired of kiwis whining about the food poisining. incedent. this is not about you it about our country emerging from the throes of apartheid and bye the bye you are the worlds greatest chokers histotry has proved that!
ryan on Jan 25, 2010
Dave, or shall I call you Dopey Dave? As you seem so good at calling people names. What a load of crap you talk and calling your self a Test Player, in your dreams mate, or maybe for the test team of Mongolia. No TEST player would stoop to your lowlessness in carrying on the way you do. What a load of bog wash, The Team to Beat also something in that small mind of yours. You too stupid to realise that it is not how many games ‘battles’ you win, but which battles you win that will win the war. Napoleon won more battles than Wellington, but he never won the war. It is the South Africans that got the savvy to know what it takes to wins World Cup’sssssss, something you in your small mind need to accept. How many times has it been pointed out to you that NZ has yet to win a world cup where South Africa in participating?????? You can’t stomach it because you are too sore to accept it. You are a bad sportsman and you are involved in blackening your countrymen’s name and association to the sport. You are gullible and stupid as all you read you take as true. If for only one reason and that is you, I hope to hell that the New Zealanders get their arses kicked next year, something you can be fairly sure of is that there is a good chance of that happening, if history is anything to go by. Wake up and come out of that silly little world you live in.
anton on Jan 26, 2010
These two fellows, Dave and Justin. R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A LOAD OFF IDIOTS. South Africa Rules, cant the accept it ??????????????
paul on Jan 26, 2010
It seems to me that from what I gather is that New Zealand Rugby has to sort out its own house before its fans can go around and question South Africa’s right to the World Cup in 1995. If anything, South Africa is paving the way to showing the world how to approach racial issues and use sports as a tool to build bridges between different ethnic groups. I can’t believe that I have read comments above where a New Zealand fan has the audacity to run down South Africa politicians and The South African Government. Shame on you. You have no knowledge of what our country and its people have had to endure, something that Clint Eastwood has tried to show the world. Nelson Mandela and all the politicians with him, black and white are and have tried their best to build a new nation.
Jo on Jan 26, 2010
Yes, But if you ask a New Zealand rugby fan why the South African team won the world cup, they will tell you of a woman called Suzie who was a waitress at the hotel the New Zealand team was staying at, and is widely believed to have poisoned the Kiwi's prior to the final. cinemabandit on Jun 5, 2009 Read more: https://www.firstshowing.net/2009/06/04/clint-eastwoods-new-film-titled-invictus-out-in-december/#ixzz0dqUQYUhY Thats why we wont ask a Whining ninny New Zealand Fan. There was no-one called Suzie pure fabrication and speculation. Never heard such a bunch of whining losers in all my life.
Steven on Jan 27, 2010
Come on, don’t you all know that Suzie is the New Zealand Slang for ‘Diarrhoea’ the only problem is that most of them do not know it and now believe that Suzie is for real. ‘The Land of Fantasy and Fables’ no wonder they chose New Zealand to Film Lord of The Rings, it’s like the real thing. You probably find half of them believing that The Dark Lord Sauron, Frodo and Gollum will make an appearance at the next World Cup, someone to blame this time! AGAIN.
Sidney on Jan 27, 2010
The facts - -4 players snuck out to eat- they were the only 4 not sick 4 hours later. -Players were vomiting within 4 hours of eating - thats not 'food poisoning', thats 'poisoning'. -Players were kept up all night by locals outside the hotel. -There is no evidence to suggest Rory Steyn is not telling the truth. -However, there is no evidence to support any of this other than player testimony. You've heard what some of them have said. Not one has denied they were extremely sick. But not one will say 'we were poisoned' directly. They simply took it out on the Boks the following year by destroying them in a series in SA. The final fact - -INVICTUS is rubbish. Sorry. I'm a fan of Eastwoods work but that was terrible. Last time I Llooked Pienaar did not have to stand on crates to eye up his opponents. The rugby scenes were appalling as was much of the dialogue. The final insult - The movie claims Mandela came to Pienaar 'with a plan' to win the RWC. This never happened. In fact Mandela had nothing to do with the team between the first pool game and the final. And absolutely no credit was given to the SA coach, who should be the one taking the plaudits for this.
SupaDave on Jan 27, 2010
Just shows how stupid you are Dave, or shall I say ‘Supa’ Stipid. The hotel where the team stayed has sound proof windows and the team were well above street level well out of harms way, even if they opened their windows, they would have encountered very little noise pollution. Once again one of you stupid comments with no base at all. This is the fabric you are made up off. I am sure you would have a different view on Invictus if the All Blacks had won. Yes you did give us a thrashing a year later, but then we went on to win the WORLD CUP AGAIN, you stupid idiot.
Ken on Jan 28, 2010
DAVE IS A DUNCE
Bill on Jan 28, 2010
SupaDave, ---Now the hotel was noisy-- The correct excuse the All blacks gave was that car alarms were going off at night. Any South African knows that due to the high crime rate nearly all cars have alarms most of which are set of by vibration. In an urban road with lots of traffic they are triggered often. The All blacks heard car alarms this was not any form of sabotage it is a normal occurrence. Just educating you.
Steven on Jan 28, 2010
Good Grief what next: The Toilet paper wasn’t soft enough or There was not enough water pressure in the shower or The Elevator (lift) was not working so the AB had to use the stairs or The mattresses were to hard/soft(they could feel the pea) or They lost their hair rollers or They had nappy rash or can someone else carry on .... 🙂
Steven on Jan 28, 2010
LOL. Doesn't change the fact that INVICTUS is shit!
SupaDave on Jan 28, 2010
It seems that Sidney forgot to mention that New Line Cinema probably Choose New Zealand as it save them a fortune in make up costs. Plenty of Wargs, Lurts,Gollum’s and Grishnakh’s floating about looking for work, or shall I say has been rugby wana bee’s with the addition of a few un-purchased South Sea Islanders, all drowning their sorrows in knowing that South Africa have snatched the World Cup from them twice and that in fact they are a load of Pansy’s in Black.
Connie on Jan 28, 2010
Hey Supa Dave I know why they lost when a bunch of girlies stay together for a long time they all have their periods together.. They all had stomach cramps.
Steven on Jan 28, 2010
Yea...okay. It's actually pure fact now that the all blacks where poisoned. "The allegation of food poisoning was later publicly backed by Rory Steyn, a former head of security for South African president Nelson Mandela.". Read the book by Rory Steyn, One Step Behind Mandala. He confirms it in the book. So afraid it's truth.
Tim on Jan 28, 2010
'Scuse me - what the heck is a 'south sea islander'? As a polynesian (who was born and raised in New Zealand) and who has never ever heard the term before I sure would like to know! as I'm sure there are a few other polynesians who would like to hear the definition! Would you be meaning Pacific Islander? Yes there are a number of polynesian players in the AB team - the vast majority born or raised in New Zealand (I've also noticed the climbing number of Australian/NZ born polynesian players in the Wallabies camp) - so what of it?!?
Annie on Jan 28, 2010
The rugby world is poorer for the loss of 'the silent assassin' Ruben Kruger who passed away 27th January. Kruger was a member of the '95 cup winning SA team and was a player we loved to hate. A great player and a true sportsman, which is more than I can say about some of the people who have posted on this site. I remember his unbelievable grit when after having scored in the first minute of the Eden Park test of '97, he badly broke his ankle 10 metres from the line in the eleventh; he ignored the pain and continued the run to offload when he was obviously in trouble...unbelievable. My condolences to his wife. two little girls and the rest of his family. R.I.P. Ruben.
Wheelan on Jan 28, 2010
Annie, there are also Kiwi's in a lot of other international sides, and lets not go near management, we Export Rugby talent on mass, but that is by the by. Yes most of the AB's were sick that day, there is clear footage of Jeff wilson Throwing up on the sideline before joining back in. And my suspision is it was no accident, but who cares, we lost, and we lost the rest of the world cups down to not being mentally tough enough. But hey Stats are stats, and one we get over the mental challenge of winnning a world cup, it will be a great side that takes it off us. The truth is I thought with professionalism we would drop off in world standards, we can't afford the salaries of europe, but we seem (inbetween world cups anyway) to be holding our own, and that can't help but work itself through every aspect of the game eventually. By the way Safa fans, what is it 9 Tri-nations wins to 3?? sorry I forgot since aparteid, you really are dominating.
Sam on Jan 29, 2010
Annie, NZ has no players in any international team what so ever. More than can be said about the All Blacks who do lure over the Islanders with fairly big sums of money and new residential status. Furthermore, the one manager they exported has struggled to achive the goals set for him and is slip sliding away slowly, but surely. Get a grip and make sure you got facts before you comment on things you have little knowledge about. We are not talking about club rugby here but about International performance.
Connie on Jan 29, 2010
Where has Tim come from? He is a few weeks behind time and is one of the fairy tale believers. Tim, get a life and wake up. Read some real books and not the rubbish you seem accustomed too. You may want to know that Rory Steyn is man alone and has quite a hard time backing up the crap he had written on the back of being a presidents security guard, may find he may have problems making a living in South Africa in the future. He may want to move over to NZ and be with his new found buddy’s and even write a sequel to Lord of the Rings.
Ken on Jan 29, 2010
RIP Ruben. great player. i'm surprised no one here has mentioned French coach ('91-'95) Pierre Berbizier's statement that France had 10 players down with food poisoning before the semifinal: http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/daily-mail-london-england-the/mi_8002/is_2006_Feb_11/berbizier-counting-surprise-hurt-england/ai_n37731764/ lightning striking twice in a matter of days, to me, spells conspiracy. i've always hoped the SA govt had nothing to do with it
Cris on Jan 29, 2010
The reason the Frogs Lost is that their Perignon bottled water had been deliberatelly poisoned by Francois Pienaar AKA Suzie dressed in drag and Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill Kennedy it was a bunch of aliens from Mars. When will this insanity end.
Steven on Jan 29, 2010
Well said Connie, Annie you are an idiot NZ has been poaching players with money and bribes for years. Without those palyer they would be a total joke.
Steven on Jan 29, 2010
Firstly, Steven, I come back from work fairly tired and you just put a smile on my face, wish we could all se the funny side of this all. But on a more serious note. SUPA DAVE it did not take you long to show your real colours and total ignorance. The whole thing has got to you and it is quite evident now reading your last comment. What is so sad is that the whole message and true meaning of the game and most importantly, the time and life of Nelson Mandela has been lost in this entire squabble. In essence you have shown that you have little or no morality, humanity and dignity as your mind has been taken over like a cancer, or shall I dare say, been POISONED. In most of your comments, they have no foundation and are pure speculation, or, based on one mans word, Rory Steyn and that of the Tabloids and fools like yourself spreading rumours. It has been suggested by many that he, Rory Steyn is nothing more than a gold digger or a Judas at that as he has forsaken those closest to him and most importantly his own country, for a fee !!! Not to mention the game has been placed in question by his claims or junk at that. No person writing in these comments, as has been done above by New Zealanders, are in a position to question Nelson Mandela or his government and their dignity or actions, as what he did was nothing more than encourages his team and thus bring together a country on the brink of civil war. So important, that Hollywood has taken it upon itself to highlight this in Invictus. Rugby is all the better for it, from what ever angle you look at it or what ever nationality you are. Dave, you have no idea what South Africa has been through, and it all shows in you comments, if you did have any dignity and character you would see through it all and forgive what ever grudge you hold and make sure you support your team in a dignified and sportsmanship manner. Many countries could do with a same approach as that of Nelson Mandela at this very moment, including, Israel, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Afghanistan, Modern day Spain, to mention just a few and with out being factitious New Zealand Rugby seems to have a nasty racial issue rearing its head at this very moment that could do with a similar approach, perhaps next year will be your year. It is such a shame that we, including myself have lost the message in all of this. I will never forget how sad I was when I was a kid and witnessed the 1981 tour to New Zealand, I was sad for rugby as I knew it would be years before the world two greatest rugby nations would clash again, so nice that it is back. To hell with this poisoning crap and leave the game clean whatever the consequence. What more could we wish for than a fair and clean SA and NZ final!!!! The chances are good.
Sidney on Jan 29, 2010
A recent documentary by the BBC on global warming was taken and part of it was looking at the effect on small islands in the Pacific, when the crew were visiting Samoa they interviewed children of whom a few were playing rugby. When the interviewer asks a boy what he wished for in the future, obviously hoping for an answer relating to global warming the boy said, I WANT TO BE A ALL BLACK !!! Basically, he wants to go where those before him have been lured too.
JOHN on Jan 29, 2010
Does everybody here realize that South Africa and New Zealand have ties as comrade and adversary that dates back as far as the Boer war 1899. From what I have heard NZ got on better the the SA troops, who we fought against, than we did the British who we fought with! This continued into the 1st and 2nd world wars and rugby was an integral part of the relationship. My grandfather told me a story about whenever NZ and SA troops crossed each others path....A chant would go up from one of the sides. "Have you read the book yet?" The other side would say "What book?"....The other side would return. "The book on rugby!"...And finally the retort would be. "We wrote it!!!" People don't lose site of this strong relationship formed on rugby and hopefully this comes through in the movie. I think most NZers would be proud to be involved in some part towards unifying SA. Cause although our ties with Australia and rugby are strong I do not think they are as strong as between NZ and SA!
Daniel on Jan 29, 2010
Finally a bit of sense in all of the madness; the last few comments have been positive rather than negative. Come on guys! The comment that we started the argument was right! The alleged poisoning incident should never have been mentioned and should never be. It is bad sportsmanship and whinging and it is not our way. Any South African reading some of these posts would be livid and rightly so. My Koro(grandfather) spoke about some of the things Daniel touched on and we are all of us bound by the same ties. As I've said before; we would all be suffering if our respective teams did not play the game. I hope you will all agree that SA v NZ is the pinnacle of the rugby year for excitement and I look forward to every battle. It seems to me that currently the Bokke have the wood on us but the good thing is.....there's always the next game! Let it be as it is on the field; no fiercer rivals but ready and willing to shake hands and have a beer afterwards. Bring on the World Cup!
Wheelan on Jan 29, 2010
mmmhmmm: i will probably watch this film cos a) i'm a clint eastwood fan, b) when watching the match live in 1995, i was genuinely happy for South Africa as a nation (i have links to SA), and c) i'm a rugby fan and feel the need to. without having seen the film, i'm led to believe eastwood chose a trueish story that simply supports a very basic theory on an intricate event. fair enough, but surely he should expect opposing views to come out of the woodwork, unless he failed to do his homework on the game. having spent the better part of my time overseas working and socialising with Saffers, i've come to the conclusion that kiwis and saffers get on very very well together, but when rugby gets mentioned, it's like a hot potato hand grenade. one or other nation is going to drop it and cause an argument round the bbq for 20mins, both as guilty as the other for selective historical reference, often solved by someone buying a round or 3. excuse me for generalising, but this movie seems like one hell of a hand grenade to many rugby-loving kiwis, cos it puts a halo over the heads of people we think screwed over the best team many of us have seen represent our nation. that's not to say anything about the boks. love the boks. cheer for you guys against everyone except PI teams. whether we're whingers or not, i wouldn't blame other nations for whinging about something similar befalling their team. the Irish asking to be the 33rd side in this year's world cup is a bit ridiculous, but i wouldn't blame them for not letting the French forget that handball, especially if they win the event!
cris on Jan 30, 2010
Nice talking to you Wheelan and regards to Daniel, you are both gentlemen and have both made my day. I know I personally would not want anything more than a SA and NZ final, and may the best team win. Rugby is great and what I have always enjoyed is that after the game you will find supporters mingling with a beer and having a chat. Let’s keep it clean.
Sidney on Jan 30, 2010
For God's sake - Kiwis get over yourselves. This is NOT a film about the All Blacks, it is a film about Nelson Mandela. Please, please, please stop moaning about how it doesn't have enough Nu Zillund in it, or how the actors look nothing like the players they're portraying, or how it makes no mention of a completely fictitious incident that a country has taken on board to explain away how they were beaten in a game they naturally (arrogantly) assumed they would win. Now - is the film any good? Please get someone who isn't from here to review it so we can get a balanced view.
ferg on Jan 30, 2010
Just want to point out to Connie, Shontayne Hape, Riki Flutey and Dylan Hartley, all New Zealanders in the England Rugby squad.
SpoiltDiva on Feb 1, 2010
New that there was a reason South Africa kicked a bit of England but at the last World Cup with ease. Thank you for the info SpoiltDiva
Connie on Feb 1, 2010
Nelson Mandela is great man, the story of Invictus is a great story, both SA and NZ have great teams, but unfortunately the movie sucks. For the record 'no' I am not a new zealander or sth african.... incase you were wondering.
phil on Feb 6, 2010
These are hilarious comments. Whinging about a waitress, whining about whinging about a waitress and complaints about some guy called Strauss allowed to play for Australia that has nothing to do with A MOVIE. Thanks for the chuckles.
gg on Jun 16, 2010
The movie is great !very well done.The story is about the 1995 Rugby World Cup and Mandela's status as president. But what I don't like is that Eastwood himself had a kind of argument with Spike Lee about two years ago. Lee told him that he didn't put Black soldiers in one of his movies about war.How can Eastwood,himself reveals as a "convinced Republican"make such a film? According to me,he made Torino and Invictus just to give good conscience to himself .I link all this to the behavior he had with Blacks when he was a Mayor.Eastwood is a racist anyway.If you don't like Black people or others in your country?how could you like the others in Africa? HYPOCRISY.
V on Jun 22, 2010
Who said Clint Eastwood can act, even his spaghetti westerns were awful. He cannot speak clearly, his war movies he directed had no story, just four letter swear words. Sorry NO CIGAR. Clinty cannot act, he is old and I mean he keeps trying to make "come backs" His idea and fabrication of South African Rugby is beyond the outbacks! The real Pienaar stood up & told it like it was. Not some wet behind the ears "hollowood" star called Mat! Mandela was imprisoned for crimes against the then government, just like the now government is putting their own kind behind bars for crimes they commit. This is not about rugby, but about Clint's movie, which sucks, because it is just "hollowood" play- play stuff! Just like Pig's Bay, well go check out the movies then read the facts! Clinty just changes it to suit himself, meanwhile he should read the facts.BTW, this is not slam Clint Eastwood day, he should just stick to his own politics and countrymen, not go poking his feeble mind into other country's politics, especially when he knows only "his" side. there is a whole lot more "goings on" in S.African politics than what he thinks. BTW Mandela did not win the match, the Boks did! Some bright spark should bring out a true movie about the great sport of rugby, without Clint Eastwood or Baby face Damon! Anyhow, if Clint wants a Nobel peace prize or to become nearly famous, the cash he spent on making Invictus, should rather have gone to a school or hospital for black South African children. So let's see the real clint Eastwood stand up for little black kidz......
Ingwa on Sep 9, 2010
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