In Defense: The Case for Vulture as a Villain in Spider-Man 4

December 10, 2009


Let's recap first, shall we? Spider-Man 4, which is not even close to filming yet, has been in and out of the news for the past 86 years. It feels that way, at least. We've heard the rumblings and rumors of a multitude of possible villains from The Lizard to Vulture to Morbius to Black Cat. We've heard of a number of different actresses who may or may not have auditioned to play the part of the latter alone. So, when we told you just a few days ago that Anne Hathaway may play Vulturess and John Malkovich is being seriously considered for the role of the villain Vulture, your backlash was, uh, pretty violent. Here are some of the comments.

"Seriously…. my nephew would be a better villain than the vulture." --mrmr

"Even with a good actor like Malkovich, the characters are crap. They were some of the weakest villains in Spider-Man. Let's get some real bad guys!" --Tra la la la la di da

"If they turn Black Cat into whatever the Vulturess is supposed to be, Spider-man will officially be dead to me. I may have been able to look past jazz dancing, but not the Vulturess." --Eddie

"Back to f***ing basics my ass. Vulturess?" --Garrett

"*Yawn* This franchise is toast." --Simon

Sure, Vulture is no Kraven or The Lizard or Mysterio, but Adrian Toomes doesn't have to be the geriatric in green that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko first envisioned him as in ASM #2. I'm here to defend the ornithological super-villain. This is the case for Vulture.

First of all, let's abolish this image of Vulture that Movieline used in their article on the Malkovich rumor. I can all but guarantee Vulture will not be Clint Eastwood yelling "Get off my lawn!" in green tights. Here are a few new images of Vulture that should be used to form your more accurate opinion from now on:

Vulture in Spider-ManVulture in Spider-Man

Which goes to prove my first point: the Vulture has the potential to be a frightening villain (and a visually stunning one, at that). Adrian Toomes is one of the more intelligent super-villains of the Marvel Universe. He's a lot like Tony Stark: an intellectually gifted electronics engineer whose brain is his greatest strength. Unlike Stark, though, Toomes creates his flight harness (providing him with super strength and the ability to fly) and uses it for evil, which, for Vulture, is most often robbing banks and jewelers. For my money, there's no villain more intimidating than an intelligent villain. But if that's not doing it for you, Vulture's flight suit also comes complete with wings as sharp as swords, sections of which can be used as projectiles that replenish like shark's teeth. Still not convinced?

Let's explore Vulture's origin, then. Adrian Toomes was the business partner of a man who'd wronged him. Toomes's partner had been embezzling funds and Toomes was about to be out on the street. So, doing what any man at the end of his rope who'd just invented a flight suit would do, he wrecks the business and turns to a life of crime. He's a loose cannon with nothing to lose!

Alright, now let's frame that in the present: There's nothing more topical than our current economic woes. People are being laid off in record numbers and unable to replace their jobs ’cause there just aren't enough to go around. What if Adrian Toomes is one of those unlucky people? What if, while working for a mega-corporation, he's fired right after his creation of the flight suit and the corporation is set to reap all the reward without giving Toomes any of the credit? He needed this job. He's got alimony to pay. And his chemotherapy isn't cheap. Then he's just an everyman, relatable, until he snaps. He realizes he likes having all the power. He can just take what he wants. And, now he's realizing, he has a knack for violence. He's lost everything already. What more does he have to lose? And that suit of his, he can't take it off… it appears to have put his cancer into remission. He's Vulture now. He may as well embrace it.

Now we have the mental instability (born of relatable pain) so common to super-villains, a devious, unbridled intelligence, and a flight suit that provides him with deadly weaponry, super-strength, and flight. He's starting to take shape, no?

Add John Malkovich. The man is a consummate professional. He's able to play it straight or ham it up. And he's able to be pretty terrifying if necessary. Not to mention, he'll be making his comic book movie debut next year in Jonah Hex. The age is right, the look is perfect, and the flight suit itself explains how he'll be able to go wing-to-web with the wall crawler. Hell, this just might work.

So, you naysayers out there, let's not count Spider-Man 4 out yet. Sure, does it royally piss me off that Sony shot down the possibility of The Lizard with extreme prejudice? Yes. Yes, it does. Would I love to see Kraven's Hunt brought to the screen? You bet. Is using Felicia Hardy as anyone but Black Cat a ridiculous notion, one that will upset more people than the character's inclusion will bring in? Of course. I mean, just create a new character who teams up with her father and becomes the Vultress. 'Cause having a love interest who's not Mary Jane to confuse Peter Parker when he's not in the red and blue is always a good thing. Having him then find out she's a supervillian, that's just a good story.

But why sully Felicia Hardy's name by making her Vulturess. The chemistry between Spider-Man and Black Cat on the page is some of my favorite. Then again, perhaps Vulturess is just a red herring. Maybe?

Hopefully I've shown the most open-minded of you that Vulture won't be the virus that kills the Spider-Man franchise. I really feel like Raimi has learned from the huge mistake that was Spider-Man 3. Raimi's a great director. Pair him with some great actors and a great script, and he's capable of turning out a great movie. If that movie just so happens to have Vulture (or, for that matter, Vulturess) in it as the villain, then count me in. I wouldn't mind seeing a mid-air fight or two between the web-head and Vulture, or the revival of the pre-9/11 web-between-two-buildings trap (seen in this teaser). Who better to use it on than Vulture?

Hey, the villain could be worse; it could be The Rhino. And the defense rests. Your thoughts on Vulture?

Find more posts: Discuss, Editorial, Hype



Spiderman 3 would've been amazing had the assclowns Arad, Ziskin, and the rest of the suits at Sony allowed Raimi to make the SM3 film he wanted to make which was to have Vulture and Sandman teaming up. I'm not surprised Raimi is using the original villain he wanted to use in the 4th film but the only problem I have is the rumour of felicia being Vultress. Come on now... no matter how you write the script, it's just a bad idea. Why use Felicia when she's already the Black Cat when you can create a whole new female character to become the vultress? I loved the first 2 films and I love Raimi... but I'm secretly hoping SM4 fails just so they can reboot the damn thing.

teyhtr on Dec 10, 2009


Vulturess is the virus that kills the Spider-Man franchise also whats going to happen with Bryce Dallas Howard as Gwen Stacy?

tazz on Dec 10, 2009


I'll likely see Spidey 4 regardless of who the villain is. But while Vulture probably could be reimagined well, people are always gonna have their idea about who the best villain would be, and Vulture just doesn't kut it. And Felicia as Vulturess is an abomination. Similar to Batgirl being a relative of Alfred's instead of Barbara Gordon (Batman and Robin). But hey, if we get Vulture, maybe we'll get a couple of kool mid-air flights, like Spidey vs. Harry in part 3. (Still think side-of-building fights vs. Lizard would be better, though)

NadaNuff on Dec 10, 2009


great article, i agree with your points that The Vulture can be fearsome if done correctly, and can relate to the viewing audience in these hard economic times. however, and this is the biggest hump for the villian to get over, The Vulture has no cool factor attached to himself. He's just not cool enough. He can possibly be a very "bad" guy, but still...just wings? no man...this is ultimately doomed to fail because kids and adults alike are going to want to watch a spider-man film, or any super-hero film, that bleeds the coolness factor...and this has none. Batman & The Joker= cool, Iron-Man & his suit = cool, Spider-Man & The Vulture = not cool. sorry man...Vulture = FAIL!

Batman on Dec 10, 2009


Not one to comment but I say this Franchise was screwed after 3. the only way of reviving this franchise is by sticking to 1 GOOD villain. Vulture, not a bad idea given the right Script. I say Stick with the Croc. I feal it might go to Morbius given the whole Vampire craze now a Days. I also hope they introduce CARNAGE 🙂 so that by the next movie itll be just Cr@Zy! just have Spiderman 5 be Spiderman Vs. Carnage Vs. Venom. city in chaos, little bit darker then the friendly neighbor hood spiderman people are so used to. then just end it nicely. and quit while your ahead

Zero on Dec 10, 2009


if its the vulture... i'll chop my own dick off

Shelby Hemstock on Dec 10, 2009


out of every spidey villian they had to pick the vulture and come up with this vultruss shit there is more than 20 spidey villians and thats what the came up with? 2 words EPIC FAIL sam raimi should just leave spiderman alone

Spider94 on Dec 10, 2009


Back to basics would be Willem Dafoe's Norman Osborn back from the dead (as he does in the comics) to take revenge on Spidey/Pete for the death of Harry (killing Gwen from the Brooklyn Bridge naturally). Nuf' said. Sure throw in the Vulture (maybe using Osborn tech) which leads to clues to Normies's big reveal as the evil mastermind, but don't get it bogged down. Still holding out for Bruce Campbell as Mysterio or Dylan Bakers transformation into the Lizard (and if they don't use the recent news of the discovery of 'prehistoric super-lizards' that ate chuffin dinosaurs, I'm gonna TM it now).

kinanswer on Dec 10, 2009


Look, it's very simple... The fans want Spiderman awesomeness, with some real bad-ass/cool villians. Vulture is definately not that! I say introduce: CARNAGE!!! Or even follow the plot line of the Planet of the Symboites series... they could come to earth looking for revenge because of Venom's 'supposed' death. I'd also like to see The Scarlet Spider being introduced, maybe he could be a villian first? Anyways, come on Sam!! Sort this shit out!!!! You know what we want!!!!

RP12 on Dec 10, 2009


Hearing the word Vultress makes me want to cringe. I would Love to see Blackcat and I would Love to see Hathaway play that role(but thats mostly because I would Lo0ove to see her in a skin tight suit, dont judge me). If this turns out to be a shit storm like SP3, ill drop this franchise like a ton of bricks.

mrmr on Dec 10, 2009


Sorry to be the pedantic bastard, but Malkovich's comic book movie debut was Art School Confidential.

John Madden on Dec 10, 2009


i want kraven and the lizard and no new characters some dumbass invented in the bathroom

yojoe on Dec 10, 2009


Vulture is just a week villian, and everyone knows it. How do you get past that? Sure tons of people will see the movie b/c it will be marketed out the wazoo, but that can't make it good. It won't be good. Most everyone on this board knows that - isn't that what we ultimatly want, a good Spider-man movie. Why is everyone settling for another Spider-man movie no matter what it is. Saying "It may suck but I'll see it anyway" just embolden's the suits to make movies based on market research and not a good story. If Vulture and Vulturess are in this movie. I will not see it? Whose with me?!

Matt on Dec 10, 2009


Wow i was expecting to be convinced that the Vulture was a good villian. Wasn't surprised that I was disappointed. You can't really make the argument that The Vulture is a good villian because he's someone we can relate to because of the economy. Flint Marko was at the end of his rope with nothing more to lose and we all know how that ended. It wouldn't really matter who the villian is. Moviegoers want a villian that even people who don't read the Spiderman comics know about. The Lizard would be a good choice. Morbius not so much just because of the sparkling "vampires" in Twilight. Carnage would be fun to watch but i don't know how they could do it. John Malkovich as the Vulture. Ill pass

Chris on Dec 10, 2009


Vultress?!... what the... If this Vultress crap is true, then Spidey 4 will bomb harder than Spidey 3! The Vulture is a good idea for a villain, but not alone! There should deffinitely be a second villain! The Vulture is just a guy in a costume, so a second villain will be needed to keep things interesting! My choices for a possible second villain are: 1. Electro 2. Morbius 3. Scorpion 4. The Lizard Please Raimi, no Vultress! Don't ruin my feelings on this once great franchise!

BUD on Dec 10, 2009


Vulture sounds like a cool idea to me. Sound very much like a combonation of Doc Oc and Green Goblin. So back to basics for sure. If Malcovich played him, I couldn't imagine it being bad

-Peter- on Dec 10, 2009


the vultre raped my father!

william on Dec 10, 2009


Raimi is losing his marbles, don't try to defend him.

JakeTheSnake on Dec 10, 2009


Having the second Peter Parker alternate love interest in two movies is a dangerous idea. While I would love to see Felicia Hardy as Black Cat (hopefully the Vultress rumors are wrong) on the big screen, seeing Peter Parker be tempted by another woman again may start to alienate the casual fans that aren't familiar with the Spider-Man / Black Cat situation. Hopefully there will be no more Gwen Stacy in any movies going forward as well. Let's face it, Venom or jazz dancing wasn't the biggest mistake of the last film, it was using the most important character in the Spider-Man world as nothing more than a cheap distraction for emo-Parker. Raimi, do the right thing. Create an excellent script involving the Vulture and Black Cat and just name the thing Spider-Man 3 again.

Phil on Dec 10, 2009


I find it funny that in defense of the Vulture, you used an image of the "new Vulture" from the recent comics, which have been some of the worst writing in Spider-Man history. Not exactly an analogy you want to make when trying to fight for a character's viability.

Pete the Geek on Dec 10, 2009


"...Toomes creates his flight harness (providing him with super strength and the ability to fly) and uses it for evil..." so the vulture is......... the Goblin?

Josh on Dec 10, 2009


@6-I'll hold you to it. I'm too pissed off at the franchise after SM3 to care what they do because there is nothing they can do to win me over.

CLZ on Dec 10, 2009


I still think the idea is crap! The storyline you laid out sounds a bit too much like the first Spider-man movie with Green Goblin. And I think that's where my biggest beef is (aside from the Felicia Hardy thing). Wasn't Felicia a blond? Anne Hathway is not attractive with blond hair if Brokeback Mountain was any indication of what she looks like with blond hair. Back to my point. The point is this, I don't think they can recycle the idea of a genius who creates a weapon-suit, who puts on the suit coz someone was gonna screw him over. Just tired of that storyline. They might as well pull the Spider-man 1 script out of he garbage and change the names and characters of Green Goblin to Vulture and maybe Harry to Felicia. So absurd. So many cool villians to go with and they fuck it up by bringing in the Vulture. Maybe if they want to really screw over the franchise, they can also bring in the dude who turns into water whose obsessed with Mary Jane coz the only thing else you can do to piss off your audience is to make Dunst on screen for more than 30 secs.

Hien on Dec 10, 2009


I say we hold number 6 to it! Lets see you post THAT on youtube ya wanker!

harm on Dec 10, 2009


My point of view often differs from many because I absolutely loved Spiderman 3, therefore I totally understand if you don't agree with what I say. Nonetheless..... I was (as you'll notice on the previous article) very disappointed in Vulture being chosen as the villian (if he has been). However, with a little more thought I believe it is indeed possible to make a great villian out of him. Vulturess on the other hand - scrap that shit. If there's gonna be a second villian, make it another possible member of the insidious six..... Yes, that's right people, we could be getting set up for an insidious six style encounter if someone like Vulture is used in this movie. Afterall, we have had Doc Oc (The Master Planner....) and Sandman already. Bring in Vulture, with Kraven. Kraven's good at hunting animals. Vulture I guess could be classified like an animal.... It's simply possiblilties. So my opinion - If they're working towards an insidious six or a Master Planner storyline, then bring on The Vulture (but not Vulturess). If they're not intending this, then bring on Scorpion, Carnage, Lizard, Kraven, Mysterio or pretty much anyone else.

Big Vinny Diesel on Dec 10, 2009


Since when did Spiderman 3 bomb? 17th highest grossing film of all time in the US...pretty good for a "bomb."

branden on Dec 10, 2009


needs to be CARNAGE...reason being is that Carnage is pure psychotic evil, and I'm gonna make a Dark Knight comparison, Carnage could be The Joker of the Spidey franchise. The story could be a lot darker, and give fans something that they deserve. CARNAGE IS THE VILLIAN WE ALL WANT after the Venom debacle. Vulture and Vultress are useless to the story...especially since the Symbiote showed up.

Xerxex on Dec 10, 2009


The main line of the article I agree with is "Then again, perhaps Vulturess is just a red herring" I believe this to be the absolute truth....there is no way that a purist and lover of Spider Man like Sam Raimi would take Felicia Hardy and turn her into "The Vultress"!! I know most of us had issues with SM3 but do we honestly believe Sam would do something this destructive with such a popular and poigant character?? I DONT! Unlike a lot of the overactions here...I don't believe choosing the Vulture would be the death nail of the Spider Man franchise. There is enough talent on that team to make it work if that is what they truly choose. I agree it may not be the most exciting villian on paper...but let's see what they would do with it

Harry Lime on Dec 10, 2009


The main line of the article I agree with is "Then again, perhaps Vulturess is just a red herring" I believe this to be the absolute truth....there is no way that a purist and lover of Spider Man like Sam Raimi would take Felicia Hardy and turn her into "The Vultress"!! I know most of us had issues with SM3 but do we honestly believe Sam would do something this destructive with such a popular and poigant character?? I DONT! Unlike a lot of the overactions here...I don't believe choosing the Vulture would be the death nail of the Spider Man franchise. There is enough talent on that team to make it work if that is what they truly choose. I agree it may not be the most exciting villian on paper...but let's see what they would do with it

Jay on Dec 10, 2009


Please excuse the double post!

Jay on Dec 10, 2009


The simple fact is that no matter is that NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THE VULTURE (Or Vulturess) AS THE VILLAIN IN SM4! Im sick of Studios feeling the need to change things "just for the sake of being different" as opposed to because its actually better in some way. Who the hell is vulturess?! felicia Hardy is Black Cat as far as im concerned or have i been living in the Truman Show all my life. stop trying to be smart and GIVE THE FANS WHAT THEY WANT! I agree with what most of you guys have posted so far and there are some good suggestions for villains. personally i would like to see Lizard and Scorpion. Mysterio could be good on the big screen too. Somehow I think we will all be ignored and SM4 will flop harder than my cock after an all nighter with the girlfriend.

Metatasian on Dec 10, 2009


and if Raimi does indeed get his head out of his ass and realizes that Carnage is the correct move...I vote either Ben Foster (Can play insane pretty well), Tom Hardy (My vote for Pinhead), or go out on a limb here Jackie Earl Haley (why not?). Damn my previous comment is wrong! well the Vulture and Vultress part is...moving on. Carnage (could I say that name anymore?) is just the right amount of evil for Spidey to fight, lets go over the list...Host Cletus Kasady crazy? Killed his Grandma, murdered a dog CHECK. Carnage practitioner of Absurdism? A philosophy stating that the efforts of humanity to find meaning in the universe ultimately fail (and hence are absurd), because no such meaning exists, at least in relation to the individual, CHECK. The belief that even a innocent person could be like him, if they have "guts." CHECK And he could have THE BEST LINE EVER: "Life is meaningless! CHAOS! The universe has no Center! The Creator a drooling idiot!" After all of that WHY NO CARNAGE!?

Xerxex on Dec 10, 2009


Raimi can do it...

Dreckent on Dec 10, 2009


Vulture would make a great villain, but I just don't see John Malkovich playing the part, regardless of the respect I have for him as an actor. Now on to other villains...Carnage would be pure unfiltered bullsh*t as a villain. So would Kraven the Hunter. I could see a Lizard/Vulture or Lizard/Kingpin mix, or you could save Kingpin for #5. But they should absolutely NOT join forces like that Sandman-Venom tag team at the end of #3. And if anyone in the creative squad of Spider-man is reading this, I've got thousands of premium ideas for Spider-man 4,5 & 6 should you desire any help from a genius and Spider-man fanatic. (Although you probably won't, and therefore I can expect some major blunders in your next Spidey films).

The Man With No Name on Dec 10, 2009


I don't have a problem with THE VULTURE as a villain in the way that some do. However, I find the notion of creating a character who is his daughter and calling her THE VULTURESS to be idiotic. Why the geniuses with the Spiderman franchise don't just elevate and expand the BETTY BRANT character to serve as a love interest for PETER PARKER and active character in the movie is beyond me. This is the sort of Hollywood lunacy that continues to get them in trouble. They have an existing female brand that has been a small but lovable character to fans over the first three movies. She is BETTY BRANT. She is played by Elizabeth Banks who, herself, has become a fairly big star in her own right. BRANT and PARKER have had great chemistry in the first three movies. And finally, BRANT is an existing character in the Spiderman universe so there is all sorts of backstory to explore. But no, instead the powers that be are going to "invent" or "manufacture" yet another female character aka The Vulturess, but call her Felicia Hardy, and spend valuable screen time introducing this brand new character into the Spiderman world. Instead of building on what they already have in another small but proven character. Complete nonsense.

Hugh on Dec 10, 2009


I think Brandon has made his points pretty nicely. I won't write off Vulture just yet.

Pete on Dec 10, 2009


I generally don't have a problem with Vulture alone, I just have a problem with the Vulture + Felicia Hardy angle. Like I said in the last topic, they're not only misusing Felicia Hardy, but the whole plot of a child adopting the villain motif of their father was already done in Spider-man 3. I mean, really, what's the difference between the (this) Vulture and Norman Osborn? Two super-genius scientists who build their own flight and weapon tech (they're even both green) with a child who's entangled with Peter Parker and eventually adopts their father's criminal gimmick. Maybe when Raimi said "Back to basics" he really meant: "lets just do Spider-man 1 and 3 AGAIN".

DRM on Dec 10, 2009


carnage or lizard. but since raimi hates venom... i'll have to go with lizard they've set him up the entire trilogy. it would be stupid not to have him, especially since he's better than all the other villains they haven't done yet

Josh on Dec 10, 2009


2 points to make on this little topic: 1) Fine, if you want to use the Vulture character then use the Vulture but make it an interesting story like the first 2 films,... and by the way #3 doesn't get my vote because it ruined the character of Venom - they could have "X'd" sandman and done so much more with Venom. 2) If you want a perfect "movie villan to use, hands down that would be Kraven. Perfect story and an absolute perfect character to present to the masses that don't have a clue. Peace -

JLPdesigns on Dec 10, 2009


Wow. What a waste of time this article is. This is like saying that King Tut or Egg Head should be the villains in the next Batman movie. The Vulture has no mass appeal and out of all the other possibilities should she only be the main villain if they get to Spider-man 8 or 9.

Jo Momma on Dec 10, 2009


I would like to see Malkovich as the vulture, he's a great actor but the whole vulturess thing sounds stupid. I wonder what happened to getting back to the basics!

Hulk on Dec 10, 2009


Brandon, we've already seen a Tony Stark-like genius driven mad TWICE now with the Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus. Why not give us the story we've been waiting for since Spiderman 2? I don't know about you, but I want to see the Lizard. The story has been moving towards it for some time now and the relationship/on-screen chemistry between Peter Parker and Curt Conners is a palpable father/son dynamic that should be furthered explored. Curt Conners isn't a genius, he's someone who had something terrible happen to it and he tries to rectify it. After Dylan Barker's incredibly villainous roles in both Trick R' Treat and NBC's KINGS, I don't see how anyone could deny him that.

Fuelbot on Dec 10, 2009


i'm intrigued by the prospect of having the Vulture in SM4, but only because of the prospect of a build up to the formation of the Sinister Six (Doc Oc 'sinks' in SM2 but doesn't really 'die' and Sandman escapes in SM3)...if Vulture is to be the feature baddie DO NOT KILL HIM OFF... ...have to take the Vulturess thing with a grain of salt...

A.T. on Dec 10, 2009


I actually think your points are valid! I like the article. I am open minded to the point that this "Vulture" character would be timely and appropriate in this economy! I understand the comic book geeks want to see cartoonish mayhem, which we saw in "Spider-Man 3". But, this could ground the series into the reality established in the 1st flick. This idea really works! I always believed in Raimi, I've said many times, and will keep saying it (especially after the "Drag Me to Hell" flick). Raimi has the potential to re-invigorate the franchise, after all, he is a Spider-Man fan! It is only a matter of seeing a trailer or Malkovich (if he is playing this character, indeed) in the suit. Unfortunately, people will keep coming out of the wood work to bitch, regardless of the villain chosen! I say to the filmmakers: Use your best judgment. Don't get swayed by the suits. Make the flick that resonates in your imagination and follow your hearts! The rest will take care of itself!! 🙂

Spider on Dec 10, 2009


44 it will ground the series back to the first movie's reality because IT IS THE SAME VILLIAN i'd rather see fantastic and new than safe and old

Josh on Dec 10, 2009


I don't have time to type much but I feel honored to be quoted! lol Seriously though, I'll say this for now and come back later after reading more comments. Doc Oc.... Ok then, I'm done. You do realize Brandon, your defense is a movie that already exists. A smart villain that was "fired" and went mad and wants revenge. Yeah...don't get me wrong, the Vulture has *cough* potential of some sort but only when they're out of ideas as the last villain and we've forgotten SP2. But we willa gain that the whole Vultress is ridiculous and a waste. How dare they change it up so much. Green Goblin is a bit different although still applies generally, this has gone on enough and Iron Man vs Spider-Man. Meh...let's actually get something else. The problem was that Venom killed the "supernatural" idea. Lizard is awesome! They need to run with it and it will battle with Peter very hard since he knows this person like the Green Goblin 2 in which they ended that so they could team up. I liked the premise of SP3 but they ran out of time after Venom was Venom because they had Parker go Emo.

Tra la la la la di da on Dec 10, 2009


In my opinion Spiderman 4 should go in the direction of the successful cartoon and follow the storylines of 'neogenics'!! Spideys arachnid side starts to take over and the only cure lies with Doc Conners who is looking into genetics to heal his out of control alter ego. With Morbius under the control of the Vulture,who himself wants a genetic cure for his advancing years this would play to the pandering of the Sony execs. Or just go with the Lizard. the bond between Conners and Peter Parker would be a writers dream. How do you destroy that which you so admire?

Mike Cockayne on Dec 10, 2009


I've been wanting the Vulture since the beginning, I really hope this happens. even though Raimi has ruined Spidey and needs to stick to low budget horror, where he's best at.

Colt on Dec 10, 2009


Sony pulling the Lizard from this film sounds like studio meddling to me. I'd trust Raimi, but I don't trust the studio. Avi Arad royally screwed over Spider-Man 3. Let's just hope he's kept well clear of this film. #1 (teyhtr), I don't think Laura Ziskin deserves trashing. She was the one good producer still working on that series. It's just she was surrounded by idiots. Glad she's still onboard for number 4.

Mark on Dec 10, 2009


i heard there is no vulture or black cat in part 4, kevin smith said from his source that all these news is just make buzz for the fourth installment

darrin on Dec 10, 2009


Vulture's my favorite Spiderman villain. I welcome this with open arms.

Rops on Dec 10, 2009


do you remeber that issue of "The Spectacular Spiderman" where spiderman unepectedly shoots power out of his arms? i mean that would make a better plot. i don't exactly remeber how it ends but, tha would definitely make for a great plot. and where exactly r they going with the story? after a surmount of villains from '3', how does the vulture and the vultress influence Parker's life? and the idea of black cat instead of vultress is always a good idea, but doesn't it drift into that animated series of spideman that aires on disney XD, where there is an array of villains and superheroes ranging from Captain America to some others i can't recall?

CAto on Dec 10, 2009


Man, I believe that the Vultere would kill the spider-man franchise, intead, they should focus more on what was left on the trhird movie, what about the lizard man, I would love to see that...!!! no more human turning into robots....f***k that.

Johnny on Dec 10, 2009


#45 It can be done with a fresher approach. "Spider-Man 3" was 'fantastic and new', heck all 3 flicks were, if you want to get technical. However, 3 was too bloated and the characters 'Sandman' and 'Venom' were developed half-assed! In essence, I firmly believe that the right villain for this sequel would surely be 'The Lizard'. "Chameleon", "Scorpion", "Shocker", and "Kraven" would also work too. I sure hope Raimi and Co. will bring us an epic "Spider-Man" flick NO MATTER what villain they choose!

Spider on Dec 10, 2009


Dude i dont know much about Vulture so this helped.... but i was already SOLD when i read that John Malkovich will play Vulture

Said on Dec 10, 2009


brandon, you should write the screenplay for sm4 based off of that marvelous defense job of the vulture.

Tim on Dec 10, 2009


You say there is nothing scarier than an intelligent villain? Hello, Dr. Connors IS an intelligent villain!!! I read your article and it has valid points but I think the fanatics, fanboys, and general comic lovers are right here: Vulture is not a cool villain. The fall of Dr. Connors into a vicious 8ft Lizard creature can be spinned into any disturbing "Jekyll and Hyde" storyplot you want. And then you introduce KRAVEN into the mix and you have yourself a pretty dark bad-ass Spidey Flick. Carnage and Venom, while are favorites in the comic world, are just not suited for film. Sad but true, sorry. And get that dumb idea about making Felicia Hardy anything but Black Cat. If you can't do her right than I say leave her out of this and bring back Gwen Stacy if you want you Spidey love triangle.

The Lil Dude on Dec 10, 2009


Having just been layed off by a large corp myself (won't say the name but it rhymes wth shitibank), over a medical emergency, I can relate to the vulture. And although I did smell a large ham and cheese sandwitch, after reading this Im willing to wait til I see a trailer to count this out. If they haven't yet thought of this stuff though they need to read this article and gather what could work in this movie. Thank you for the added perspective.

Topher on Dec 10, 2009


Spider-man 1 and 2 were good and that is it. This non-sense of having a 4th film is not worth watching nor worth making.

Madnezz344 on Dec 10, 2009


Really like the points made in the article. I have no clue whatsoever as to why anyone would want to put this "Vulturess" villain into the mix. I do believe Vulture could be good ONLY if done carefully and correctly, which I'm having trouble believing that it will be done correctly in the first place. If they want to put another villain in there, then there's plenty of really good options. One of them is NOT Elektro. Someone else put him as a good option and I can't disagree more, sorry dude. Whenever the characters and story are confirmed is when I'll decide whether or not to see this movie not now.

Mighterok on Dec 10, 2009


gerard butler as kraven. hunting the lizard and spiderman. this would be awesome. make it real gritty like dark knight.

nacho on Dec 10, 2009


What the hell is wrong with Hollywood these days??? Now they want to drive Spider Man into the dirt further by casting freakin Anne Hathaway. Oh my god I cannot stand her, and they honestly want to have her play Black Cat??!! The chick is a total twig and I could never imagine her playing in an ACTION movie. She's a bad actress and she would suck. But to make matters worse they want to change Hardy's alter-ego.. That's insane! What a mistake. They truly killed it.

Amanda Hernandez on Dec 11, 2009


THanks for the quote! Anyway, I'm not upset in the least about the vulture. I think he has loads of potential. But Vulturess? cmon

Garrett on Dec 11, 2009


While I do see the Vulture as a good potential villain, I must strongly disagree with the approach this article takes and agree with those above that say this is too much like SM1 with the Goblin. I think going with the Vulture as a dying old man seeking to regain his youth/health is a much better scenario. Perhaps he uses his suit to abduct people and bring them back to his lab so he can run experiments on them. Or even figure out some way he could be draining the youth from people, but at least make it plausible. Maybe something with stem cells or he's taking peoples organs? Keep having people disappear, like homeless people, and there just be rumors on the streets and in the tabloids that a monster that looks like a giant bird is taking people but no one really pays attention. Then, the old man starts running out of money and begins robbing banks for more funds. Spider Man eventually puts the details together and stops the Vulture. I'd throw in a third character that is perhaps looking to steal information and technology from Vulture and is pretending to be on Spidey's side but then betrays everyone in the end. Hell, you could even make the Vulture some scientist lackey of the dying old man that thinks they are doing something for the greater good, even have him question the motives and ethics of it all, and then finds out too late that the old man is doing this all for selfish reasons.

S on Dec 11, 2009


I still wish James Cameron made the movie, which had Electro as the main villain. Pretty awesome screenplay. Sod Raimi, I ain't watching SM4 after the abomination that was SM3.

Movie Fan on Dec 16, 2009


I'm not upset in the least about the vulture. I think he has loads of potential. But Vulturess? cmon

TheFamilyMan on Jan 11, 2010


Brandon now that they went with the reboot what is your defense of Sony?

jake the snake on Jan 11, 2010

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